Alex Jones

World Trade Center 7 | Some “Trutherisms” Refuted

Published by Papa Giorgio

Originally posted here in April of 2011

INTRO/CONTENTS

JUMP TO:

Steve Spak | Edward Current 1 | Diesel Fuel In WTC-7
Falling Debris Damaged WTC-7 | Demolition? | Fires Raged for Hours
Does Office Furniture Melt Steel | Q&A | Challenged with Building Number Seven
Debunking 9/11 Book Quote (Fuel) | Debunking 9/11 Book Quote (Bedfellows)
Edward Current 2 (UFOs and Explosions) | Pull It – BIG

JUDGE NAPOLITANO AND GERALDO RIVERA (WTC-7)

(HOTAIR hat-tip) The Judge and Geraldo Rivera Truthers!? Building Seven’s collapse was explained then as it is now and below. 

I was not surprised to find out the Judge is a truther… people cannot be convinced that mankind is finite and saturated with failure and stupidity to explain away our missteps. The would rather believe in a very complex set of steps to leading to irrationality than that. “There HAS to be something more… a grand conspiracy to fool the intellectual prowess we all possess.

This is a many years update and additional media and pictures added (2023-09-05) to keep this post alive and well. The debate on Tower 7 still rages, and I must say, it is fun to show how awkward the counter position is.

STEVE SPAK

Before starting this “funfest,” I will say that one of the best refutations of the truther movement was a video done by fireman and photographer, Steve Spak. I used his mini-documentary for a while, until it was removed from his video account.

I tracked him down and we talked over the phone (many years ago now). I asked him why he would pull such a great resource off the internet. He responded that these nutters would come by his work and interrupt his daily life… so he just didn’t want to deal with all the nonsense.

I did track down — finally — an interview with Steve where much of this pertinent information comes out. So this is the first time Steve (God Bless Him) is back on my site in what? Seven years (April 10, 2011) Enjoy:

STEVE SPAK was partly in charge of the firefighting efforts around WTC-7, and was one of the main persons involved in the decision to let it burn. I had heard a previous interview years before this one, but Steve pulled it from the internet. His reason? 9/11 Truther crazies would show up at his station and interfear with every day work firefighters do around their station. They would yell at him, call him a liar, etc. He said he had had enough of these nuts and went silent. I believe this interview is after he retired.

I am starting to get some truther (e.g., 9/11 conspiracy theorists) traffic so I will post a Tower Seven resource blog for those who wish to come here and see for themselves (or to send a friend).

EDWARD CURRENT 1

The last word on the collapse of the original 7 World Trade Center on September 11, 2001. Running down the mainstream engineering explanation, debunking common Truther myths, and answering frequently asked questions. Comments may be intentionally demolished…make your own video if you want to spread misinformation about this engineering disaster, or about anything else.

The “truther” would have us believe that the building (WTC 7) received no structural damage. This is just not the case.

FUEL IN WTC-7

Nor do you hear them mention that there was diesel fuel throughout the building:

Tower 7 housed the city’s emergency command center, so there were a number of fuel tanks located throughout the building—including two 6000-gal. tanks in the basement that fed some generators in the building by pressurized lines. “Our working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time,” according to Sunder. Steel melts at about 2,750 degrees Fahrenheit—but it loses strength at temperatures as low as 400 F. When temperatures break 1000 degrees F, steel loses nearly 50 percent of its strength. It is unknown what temperatures were reached inside WTC7, but fires in the building raged for seven hours before the collapse.

See NCSTAR Report WTC7 pp. 60-63 (104-107) 3.4.2 Diesel Fuel

DAMAGE FROM FALLING DEBRIS

Below are some examples or the damage caused by the collapse of Tower 1 and 2 — that show some of the damage caused by falling debris. What the truthers don’t mention either is that the falling debris from the Twin Towers damaged many of the high-pressure water lines the fire department needed to fight the fires in WTC 7. (As already pointed out above by Steve Spak and Edward Current):

When it was completed in 1973, the World Trade Centre was the tallest building in the world, thanks to many of its revolutionary construction methods. But none of these methods was enough to survive the attacks on September 11th where jet fuel fires led to a weakening of the steel that held the structure together, and ultimately caused both buildings to collapse.

Now I want to show the debris ring and an example (Bankers Trust) of the destruction from the original two towers collapsing:

There are also video examples of some of this debris actually hitting WTC 7:

Another lie about WTC 7 is that it took under 7-seconds to collapse… showing a similarity to a controlled demolition.

DEMOLITION? FREE FALL?

As an example of how persistent this idea of “demolition” is of WTC-7, here is a chap on X noting this idea as if it is sound. Think of the power tools (noise and lugging them in and out), the noise, the dust (have you fixed your own drywall at any point?) — all unnoticed:

Frankie, below, I think is speaking about the Twin Towers, while I am speaking about Building Seven. The demolition teams required for the Twin Towers would defiantly number 2 teams of 75 people [or more] and take many months of prep with all the associated “mess” noted below — compounded for a larger building and time needed.

My oldest son commented on the above in a series of texts:

The most top notch team in the world !

A clandestine multi point dark demolition mission synchronized with a plane hijacking….while having no correlation to the terrorist who also invested months in training themselves…. [in other words: There’s no evidence of anyone in the demo team coordinating the strike]

Literally be the wildest operation [in our countries history] ever 

And no witnesses 

You would have to use the Men In Black mind swipers 

MY TEXT BACK: And while I was talking about building 7, he was talking about the Twin Towers. So larger teams (doubled), more time and waste n tools, etc

Like magically hiding all the Det cord 

And explosives…. are very closely watched via the ATF for demolition people 

A building like that takes quality materials 

MY TEXT BACK: All under the nose of New York unions

Honestly…. Macro evolution is looking more likely  

FREE-FALLING

The times that the truthers originally gave to WTC-7 free-falling [in Loose Change and other sources] did not hold up, as this next video clearly shows:

The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) conducted an extensive three-year scientific and technical investigation of the Sept. 11, 2001, collapse of the 47-story World Trade Center building 7 (WTC 7) in New York City. This video describes the results of this study, which concluded that fires on multiple floors in WTC 7–which were uncontrolled but otherwise similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings–caused an extraordinary event. Heating of floor beams and girders caused a critical support column to fail, initiating a fire-induced progressive collapse that brought the building down.

9/11 Debunked: Larry Silverstein’s “Pull It” Explained

I love the truth of a matter; it is the truth that shall set you free, not opinion. Be set free truther’s, be set free.

FIRES BURNED FOR HOURS!

I want to post some pictures and a video here that will curb some of the wild thoughts that the fire in the WTC-7 was small and contained. Often times this is the photo or scene shown on many of the conspiratorial “documentaries” or sites:

Then the Truther will say something like… “Wow! Such a rager of a fire.” HOWEVER, the fire burned for hours, and here are some accompanying pics that should be shared as well:

VIDEO OF FIRE – RPT’s RUMBLE:

Me hunting the WWW…

All Footage of WTC-7 from Steve Spak’s DVD:
“WTC 9-11-01 Day of Disaster”

MORE FOUND AT THE MAIL ONLINE:

It is easy to show the fact that there was a massive fire in WTC-7.

But people cannot be convinced easy… especially if they have thought this to be true for years.

MELTING STEEL?

Now I want to switch gears and repost an old blog on “MELTING STEEL,” another fallacy of the 9/11 truthers:

FUEL & STEEL

According to the 9/11 Truthers, gasoline doesn’t burn hot enough to melt steel. Remember that the type of heat experienced in the Twin Towers weakened the steel by more than 50%. This aside, what you see below is steel melted by gasoline. Apparently this can happen only in steel beams used in the construction of bridges, but not in buildings. (Watch your volume levels – static)

A newer edition to this “heat vs. bridges” is this one from BRETBART:

A section of Interstate 95 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, collapsed when a tanker truck went up in flames on Sunday, and officials warned drivers to stay clear of the area.

The truck was hauling a petroleum product when the blaze ignited, according to the Associated Press (AP).

Q & A

These are responses, positive and negative to this post. I am sharing a few over the years as they are me responding to some supposed challenges.

...Dayton Responds

very interesting indeed

...Luke Responds

Dayton introduced me to this blog of yours, and I gotta say, nice work.

...I Respond

Thanks Luke.

For many years I followed the New World Order stuff, reading many, many books on the subject, even going so far as to visit the local John Birch Society meeting once-in-awhile, and after many years I came to realize that if you critically looked into the evidences for this giant conspiracy to fool mankind knowingly, it is shown to be wanting.

Currently the conspiracy to fool mankind is backed by liberals, however, when Clinton was President, it was backed by conservatives. For a theory or model to explain every possible outcome and have completely different backers depending on who’s in office simply means that it is not a true theory or model because it is so elastic. And this is a conclusion that I came to a while back and had solidified by Michael Medved during his monthly Conspiracy Show (around the full moon). elastic.

Let me point something out though. The difference between the lib/con views of the giant conspiracy to fool mankind is that no leading political figure in the Republican Party accepted these crazy conspiracy myths as real. Today however, you have a huge chunk of the Democratic base accepting many of these wild stories and blame America first mentality, as well as many Democrat senators and representatives mentioning these crazy ideas.

Its funny, I can show someone proof that “X” didn’t happen, but “B” in fact did. They will simply respond that that too was a cover up meant to fool the general public, e.g., me. There is no debating such a person. In fact, this was the original reason for my creating a MySpace, was to challenge a few of my oldest sons friends on this exact matter.

As for us Christians . . . I use to think that this giant conspiracy would fool mankind into following the Anti-Christ. Now I think the delusion of this theory will drive many people to accept almost anything . . . even a messianic type figure. In other words, it’s the conspiracy theory ITSELF that breaks down the critical thinking and road to truth that makes accepting incredible claims without evidence, logic, history, and the like, more common place. Which is why having a healthy eschatology as a Christian is very important.

Sorry for the rant, again, glad you enjoyed.

PapaG

BUILDING .. NUMBER .. SEVEN

This was in response to a discussion about the Twin Towers:

...Mark Joins In

You’ve got me almost convinced. But three words still ring in my ear.

Building

number

seven.

Building number 7 of the wtc was not hit by a 747, jet fuel or falling debris (aside from the dust that covered most of NYC) but mysteriously caught fire and imploded.

What – magic?

POPULAR MECHANICS BOOK (DEBUNKING 9/11 MYTHS) | FUEL

...I Respond

Thank you Mark for your interaction here, it is welcomed.

Actually, building seven was hit by a massive amount of debris from Tower 1 or 2 (I will look into which tower when I get the National Geographic DVD, since that has the best shots of falling debris I have seen yet). What you may not know is that building 7 housed the city’s emergency command post. The building was designed to remain operational if power were to be lost. How was this building designed to keep running if power were to go out? This is the part we don’t hear too much about:

  • …There were a number of fuel tanks throughout the building that may have supplied fuel to the fires for up to seven hours. In addition to smaller “day tanks” on each floor, two 6,000-gallon tanks in the basement fed most of the generators in the building….. Two generators, located on the fifth floor, were connected to the fuel tanks in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: “Our working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time”…. (p. 56)
  • ….WTC 7 was built to straddle a Con Edison electrical substation. That required an unusual design in which a number of columns were engineered to carry exceptionally large loads, roughly 2,000 square feet of floor area for each floor. “What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors,” Sunder notes, “it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down.” (p. 55)

(Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can’t Stand Up to the Facts)

Also note that trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed (similarly to WTC 1 and 2) to transfer loads from one set of columns to another.

(The following is added for clarity even though already ): I want the skeptic to look here at the damage caused by debris [let alone the fires] from the falling Twin Tower to building 7:

Oooops, I guess the building was damaged after all!

...Ryan Joins In

Do you work for the government? lol… first off just because people have conflicting theories and haven’t figured out everything doesn’t mean there wrong. Ok I am pretty convinced that 9-11 was an inside job from the videos I have seen and you call people who believe in this wacko… not a very good thing if you want people from the other side to listen to you. I haven’t read everything you said yet… I get headaches when I read. Do you have any google videos or something that I could watch that supports your side?

POPULAR MECHANICS BOOK (DEBUNKING 9/11 MYTHS) | BEDFELLOWS

...I Respond

The best bet is to buy The Learning Channel’s video “World Trade Center: Anatomy of the Collapse”, this is a great resource. Dude, you are talking to a guy that is going to recommend books all-day long… so you may want to find someone else to talk to. Some of the largest demolition companies were approached by the authors of the book I recommend, and they said that it would take two-teams of 75-people (each team) months to plant and strip all the supports columns on three floors. This went unnoticed?

Also, the “Loose Change” people have strange bedfellows… something the conspiracists always try to make connections to in regards to Bush and the oil companies…. I would say for them to look at the log in their eye first:

[….]

I am including some edited comments I made from another post to make clear some thinking here:

...Additional Info

Grant,

First off let me welcome you to this site. While I will disagree with you you must keep in mind your opinion is welcome here.

Secondly, did you even read my post? There was a destructive agent involved, and it wasn’t Bush! Could it be… “SATAN?!” No, it was probably the 15,000 gallons of fuel in WTC-7. There are two important things to remember: there hasn’t been a building (1) like the Twin Towers Complex built that had (2) this amount of damage done to them. Keep in mind that the other buildings often used as “caught on fire and didn’t collapse” as proof that the Twin Towers or WTC-7 shouldn’t have were never hit by large debris [and in the case of the TT, planes] and then caught on fire with their particular architecture, 15,000-gallons of fuel in the building, and no water to fight it.

Another important thing to remember is that in those other buildings always mentioned, there was sufficient water to fight the fires and put them out or stop them from spreading. Most of the sites you probably visit do not show the photos and video I will show.

I will first – in the “UPDATE” section [photos shown above] – show the photo most see on conspiracy sites, and then show some video and shots that tell the whole story. But first, let’s review how this is different, than say a plane hitting the Empire State Building:

1) About 15,000 gallons of fuel, some of it high pressured “spouts of flames;”

2) Little to no water pressure to supply the firefighters hoses to fight the fire (damaged from the massive amount of debris from Tower 2);

3) Yes steel used in WTC-7… but no, not same design. The support structure of this building was wildly different than any other building’s design. So the factors of debris, architectural design, and fuel all were a deadly combination to any and all of these buildings.

A LATER UPDATE
FAKE VIDEO USED AS PROOF

UFOs and WTC-7

It’s funny because someone just posted this video that Eddie Current made. Here is the video posted on Twitter, with my response:

I guess the guy missed the UFO added as well! LOL:

Many 9/11 “Truthers” weren’t fooled by my ridiculous fake video of 7 World Trade Center being taken down by controlled demolition. But those who were, well….. gullible people are gullible.

 

A well-known leader in the truther movement, has left the movement — but not before creating a fake video that the 9-11 truthers fell for, hook-line-and-sinker. Here are two videos by him.

HERE IS HIS FIRST VIDEO ABOUT LEAVING THE MOVEMENT:

A semi-comedic — but dead serious — account of my embarrassing brush with the delusional “Truth” movement.

Here is a waaay more in-depth “Pull-It” response.

Pull It

I can’t believe I am revisiting this. At any rate, someone challenged me with the Pull-It “conspiracy,” proving [somehw] that the building was brought down by charges/detonation devices. I was asked to watch this:

This is from one of the best sites on this matter, Debunking 9/11’s post on Pull-It:

Silverstein’s Quote:

  • “I remember getting a call from the Fire Department commander, telling me they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, you know, ‘We’ve had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is just pull it.’ And they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse.“

-Fact which is undisputed by either side, he was talking to the fire commander

-Fact which is undisputed by either side, both are not in the demolition business

Silverstein’s spokesperson, Mr. McQuillan, later clarified:

“In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center. The Commander told Mr. Silverstein that there were several firefighters in the building working to contain the fires. Mr. Silverstein expressed his view that the most important thing was to protect the safety of those firefighters, including, if necessary, to have them withdraw from the building.“

He could be lying, right? But here is the corroborating evidence…

“They told us to get out of there because they were worried about 7 World Trade Center, which is right behind it, coming down. We were up on the upper floors of the Verizon building looking at it. You could just see the whole bottom corner of the building was gone. We could look right out over to where the Trade Centers were because we were that high up. Looking over the smaller buildings. I just remember it was tremendous, tremendous fires going on. Finally they pulled us out. They said all right, get out of that building because that 7, they were really worried about. They pulled us out of there and then they regrouped everybody on Vesey Street, between the water and West Street. They put everybody back in there. Finally it did come down. From there – this is much later on in the day, because every day we were so worried about that building we didn’t really want to get people close. They were trying to limit the amount of people that were in there. Finally it did come down.” – Richard Banaciski

(NEW YORK TIMES – PDF)

Here is more evidence they pulled the teams out waiting for a normal collapse from fire…

  • “The most important operational decision to be made that afternoon was the collapse (Of the WTC towers) had damaged 7 World Trade Center, which is about a 50 story building, at Vesey between West Broadway and Washington Street. It had very heavy fire on many floors and I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we [wouldn’t] lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was [given], at 5:30 in the afternoon, World Trade Center collapsed completely” – Daniel Nigro, Chief of Department

(NEW YORK TIMES)

  • “Early on, there was concern that 7 World Trade Center might have been both impacted by the collapsing tower and had several fires in it and there was a concern that it might collapse. So we instructed that a collapse area — (Q. A collapse zone?) — Yeah — be set up and maintained so that when the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn’t have people working in it. There was considerable discussion with Con Ed regarding the substation in that building and the feeders and the oil coolants and so on. And their concern was of the type of fire we might have when it collapsed.” – Chief Cruthers

(NEW YORK TIMES)

  • “Then we found out, I guess around 3:00 [o’clock], that they thought 7 was going to collapse. So, of course, [we’ve] got guys all in this pile over here and the main concern was get everybody out, and I guess it took us over an hour and a half, two hours to get everybody out of there. (Q. Initially when you were there, you had said you heard a few Maydays?) Oh, yes. We had Maydays like crazy…. The heat must have been tremendous. There was so much [expletive] fire there. This whole pile was burning like crazy. Just the heat and the smoke from all the other buildings on fire, you [couldn’t] see anything. So it took us a while and we ended up backing everybody out, and [that’s] when 7 collapsed…. Basically, we fell back for 7 to collapse, and then we waited a while and it got a lot more organized, I would guess.” – Lieutenant William Ryan

(NEW YORK TIMES)

“Firehouse: Did that chief give an assignment to go to building 7?

Boyle: He gave out an assignment. I didn’t know exactly what it was,but he told the chief that we were heading down to the site.

Firehouse: How many companies?

Boyle: There were four engines and at least three trucks. So we’re heading east on Vesey, we couldn’t see much past Broadway. We couldn’t see Church Street. We couldn’t see what was down there. It was really smoky and dusty.” 

“A little north of Vesey I said, we’ll go down, let’s see what’s going on. A couple of the other officers and I were going to see what was going on. We were told to go to Greenwich and Vesey and see what’s going on.So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good.

But they had a hoseline operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too. Then we received an order from Fellini, we’re going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn’t look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn’t really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I’m standing next to said, that building doesn’t look straight. So I’m standing there. I’m looking at the building. It didn’t look right, but, well, we’ll go in, we’ll see.

So we gathered up rollups and most of us had masks at that time. We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandies came running up. He said forget it, nobody’s going into 7, there’s creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped. And probably about 10 minutes after that, Visconti, he was on West Street, and I guess he had another report of further damage either in some basements and things like that, so Visconti said nobody goes into 7, so that was the final thing and that was abandoned.

Firehouse: When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?

Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.

Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?

Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. We lost touch with him. I never saw him again that day.

(FIREHOUSE MAGAZINE)

This proves there was a big hole on the south side of the building. From the photographic evidence and these quotes which aren’t meant to be technical, I suspect there was a large hole in the center of the building which may have gone up 10 stories connected to a large rip on the left side of the building which continued up another 10 or more stories. Together they would make “a hole 20 stories tall“.

Hayden: Yeah. There was enough there and we were marking off. There were a lot of damaged apparatus there that were covered. We tried to get searches in those areas. By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing,but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?

Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along thesurface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.

Firehouse: Chief Nigro said they made a collapse zone and wanted everybody away from number 7— did you have to get all of those people out?

Hayden: Yeah, we had to pull everybody back. It was very difficult. We had to be very forceful in getting the guys out. They didn’t want to come out. There were guys going into areas that I wasn’t even really comfortable with, because of the possibility of secondary collapses. We didn’t know how stable any of this area was. We pulled everybody back probably by 3 or 3:30 in the afternoon. We said, this building is going to come down, get back. It came down about 5 o’clock or so, but we had everybody backed away by then. At that point in time, it seemed like a somewhat smaller event, but under any normal circumstances, that’s a major event, a 47-story building collapsing. It seemed like a firecracker after the other ones came down, but I mean that’s a big building, and when it came down, it was quite an event. But having gone through the other two, it didn’t seem so bad. But that’s what we were concerned about. We had said to the guys, we lost as many as 300 guys. We didn’t want to lose any more people that day. And when those numbers start to set in among everybody… My feeling early on was we weren’t going to find any survivors. You either made it out or you didn’t make it out. It was a cataclysmic event. The idea of somebody living in that thing to me would have been only short of a miracle. This thing became geographically sectored because of the collapse. I was at West and Liberty. I couldn’t go further north on West Street. And I couldn’t go further east on Liberty because of the collapse of the south tower, so physically we were boxed in.

(FIREHOUSE MAGAZINE)

It mirrors what Silverstein said.

  • WTC Building 7 appears to have suffered significant damage at some point after the WTC Towers had collapsed, according to firefighters at the scene. Firefighter Butch Brandies tells other firefighters that nobody is to go into Building 7 because of creaking and noises coming out of there.  [Firehouse Magazine, 8/02 — METABUNK]
  • Battalion Chief John Norman later recalls, “At the edge of the south face you could see that it is very heavily damaged.” [Firehouse Magazine, 5/02 — METABUNK]

Heavy, thick smoke rises near 7 World Trade Center. Smoke is visible from the upper floors of the 47-story building. Firefighters using transits to determine whether there was any movement in the structure were surprised to discover that is was moving. The area was evacuated and the building collapsed later in the afternoon of Sept. 11.

(FIREHOUSE MAGAZINE)

The Pyramid of “Far Right” Radicalization (RPT’s Thoughts)

Published by Papa Giorgio

After this “short” expose the bottom line is that the top half of the pyramid [to follow] has more in common with Leftist ideals of a larger government, and should be in a pyramid that includes ANTIFA and the beliefs of Michael Loadenthal.

DAN BONGINO: LEFTY ADMITS THE THINGS THEY DO ARE ILLEGAL

(See also ACE OF SPADES for more “stuff) Some backdrop to the above video, first by AMERICAN FAMILY NEWS:

Thanks to the MEDIA RESEARCH CENTER, a media watchdog group, the public is now learning the Biden-led Department of Homeland Security has passed out $40 million in grant funds to left-leaning recipients through a program called Targeted Violence and Terrorism Prevention Grant Program, or TVTP. Those funds, which ranged from a $85,000 to $1.1 million, were spread among 80 grants to recipients such as an extremism prevention program at the University of Dayton and a homosexual rights group named Out Boulder County.

Free Speech America, a division of Media Research, learnenewsbd about the flow of grant money and its recipients thanks to a Freedom of Information Act request. That public records request forced DHS to hand over some – but not all – public documents related to the federal agency’s ongoing effort to condemn its right-wing enemies, such as think tank The Heritage Foundation and cable news outlet Fox News. 

With some of that public request information in hand, MRC and Free Speech America were able to track down the TVTP grant recipients and request the results they produced from their taxpayer-funded grants.

Michael Morris, who leads Free Speech America, tells AFN the most alarming revelation so far was a “Pyramid of Far-Right Radicalization” that categorizes right-wing threats in four tiers. It includes little-known Neo-Nazi groups with well-known groups such as the NRA and media outlets such a Fox News.

“When [Joe] Biden goes out and says that they’re administration is looking to go after white supremacists,” Morris tells AFN, “they’re not talking about actual white supremacists. They’re talking about you.”

Like a food pyramid with whole grains at the bottom and sugar at the top, the top of the pyramid lists anti-Semitic Neo-Nazi groups as the most dangerous enemy of the American public. In the chart, they fill up the No. 4 and No. 3 slots. Meanwhile, Fox News, The Heritage Foundation, Christian Broadcasting Network, the National Rifle Association, and the Republican Party are listed at the bottom.

Just above them, in the No. 2 slot, are PragerUniversity, Breitbart News, pro-police group Blue Lives Matter, Turning Point USA, and Infowars.

[….]

According to Morris, a genocide expert at the conference compared President Donald Trump to Pol Pot, the Cambodian leader who oversaw the massacre of millions. A second speaker, with Human Rights Watch, suggested Florida’s governor, Ron DeSantis, wants to start a second Holocaust by creating a state militia. 

In its story, Fox News was not done with Loadenthal. It points out how he spoke at a second seminar on “White Nationalism” in which he praised “antifascists” and Antifa for fighting the Far Right. Like a war veteran describing battle, Loadenthal recalled fondly how he had fought “white supremacists” in his “younger years” before that movement evolved into what is now known as Antifa. 

“Antifascists” is where “Antifa” gets it name, and its violent members are self-described Communists, Marxists, and anarchists. 

“A lot of things we’re doing are illegal,” the researcher said. “A lot of it involves breaking the law.” 

Yes, they are breaking laws, but the chart breaks common sense as well. I will explain what I mean a bit [those that follow me know when I say “a bit,” sometimes that means “a lot”], but people have a very broken view of the issue and where the cards fall, so-to-speak.

So, let’s delve into this issue with some partial past posts of mine discussing the main issue I see between levels 1 and 2 and those of 3 and four. (So I am cutting the pyramid in half essentially.) Here is the main idea via an old post that originally appeared in August 2007 on my old blog, but that eventually got imported and updated to my .com:

WHAT “IS” FASCISM ~ TWO OLD POSTS COMBINED

…. Let us look at what we are told is suppose to be the political landscape if it were to be put into a line graph.

Really this is misleading. For one, it doesn’t allow for anarchy, which is a form of governance (or lack thereof). Also, it places democracy in the center… as if this is what one should strive for, a sort of balance. (The most popular — college level graph — is wrong and misleading as well):

However, the founding fathers wanted nothing to do with a democracy no matter how many times a New York Times editorialist or you’re teacher says we are in one:

  • James Madison (fourth President, co-author of the Federalist Papers and the father of the Constitution) Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have, in general; been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.
  • John Adams (American political philosopher, first vice President and second President) Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.
  • Benjamin Rush (signer of the Declaration): “A simple democracy is one of the greatest of evils.”
  • Fisher Ames (American political thinker and leader of the federalists [he entered Harvard at twelve and graduated by sixteen], author of the House language for the First Amendment): “A democracy is a volcano which conceals the fiery materials of its own destruction. These will provide an eruption and carry desolation in their way…. The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness [excessive license] which the ambitious call, and the ignorant believe to be liberty.”
  • Governor Morris (signer and penman of the Constitution): “We have seen the tumult of democracy terminate as [it has] everywhere terminated, in despotism. Democracy! Savage and wild. Thou who wouldst bring down the virtous and wise to thy level of folly and guilt.”
  • John Quincy Adams (sixth President, son of John Adams [see above]): “The experience of all former ages had shown that of all human governments, democracy was the most unstable, fluctuating and short-lived.”
  • Noah Webster (American educator and journalist as well as publishing the first dictionary): “In democracy there are commonly tumults and disorders.. therefore a pure democracy is generally a very bad government. It is often the most tyrannical government on earth.”
  • John Witherspoon (signer of the Declaration of Independence): “Pure democracy cannot subsist long nor be carried far into the departments of state it is very subject to caprice and the madness of popular rage.”
  • Zephaniah Swift (author of Americas first legal text): “It may generally be remarked that the more a government [or state] resembles a pure democracy the more they abound with disorder and confusion.”

The Founders obviously knew what a democracy was, which is why in Article IV, Section Four of the Constitution, it says:

  • The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government.

The following graph includes all political models and better shows where the political beliefs lie e.g., left or right is the following (take note, this graph is from a book I do not support nor recommend… but these visual insights are very useful):

In actuality, during WWII, fascism grew out of socialism, showing how close the ties were. I would argue that the New Left that comprises much of the Democratic Party today is fascistic, or, at least, of a closer stripe than any conservative could ever hope to be. I will end with a model comparing the two forms of governance that the two core values (conservatism/classical liberalism versus a socialist democracy) will produce. Before you view the below though, keep in mind that a few years back the ASA (American Socialist Association) on their own web site said that according to the voting record of United States Congressmen and Women, that 58 of them were social democrats. These are the same that put Hitler and Mussolini in power.

Which Do You Prefer?? Liberal Democrats want more government control, Conservative Republicans want less. In a discussion, I exemplified that minimally “fascism” is growth of government in this way:

[….]

To expand a bit on the Rummel book mentioned above… he shows that both the citizenry and free countries are dealt heavy hands and dedath in greater numbers as the government grows larger. Conservatives want to decrease governments size. Progressives want to increase the size of government.

Which is why I shake my head when I hear about people talking about the libertarian Koch Brothers influencing politics. They are for same-sex marriage as well as wanting to make government smaller, in other words, MORE CONSTUTUTIONAL. When people like billionaire coal magnate Tom Steyer gives millions of dollars to Democrats to increase the size of government, he is praised as a hero. The same goes for George Soros.

The bottom line is that leftist billionaires/millionaires who support more control by government over the affairs of men [like Tom Steyer, George Soros, Bill Gates, etc] are participating in the exponential growth in the chance of it’s citizenry to be killed in order to implement all these new legislative laws and powers that go along with the growth of government. By growth of government the ease to nationalize things becomes easier. Like Obama’s Harvard professor pointed out, above.

Here is a more Constitutional look (clip) at government:

So we see that there is a misunderstanding at the core that doesn’t account for the top half of the pyramid wanting a socialist form of government like Mussolini or Hitler set out to accomplish, versus, the “right” in America that wants a small government and voting brought back to the electorate through what the Constitution clearly enumerates in statehood.

So let us go through the bottom half a b it.

FIRSTLY, I cross out the JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY (JBS) and INFO WARS for a few reasons. I was heavily influenced by JBS through an old bookstore in North Hollywood back in the day. Lots of conspiracy books and VHS documentaries, yada-yada. While many authors and writers for JBS made great points and had insights into communism and the Left… there was a stream of conspiratorial views that I eventually rejected, and thus stopped following the society as a whole. I discuss this a bit in a chapter from my book:

In fact, even though these “conspiracy writers” may drop the ball on some historical facts and their connections, insights — like I said — are still admirable. For instance, some of the graphs I have already used above come from such a book: None Dare Call It Conspiracy, By GARY ALLEN. I wouldn’t recommend the book to a young mind just starting out in parsing good political theory from bad… but I would recommend it to someone who can rightly parse good history from bad…. as there is worthwhile thoughts to glean from such a book. Especially with the World Economic Forum topic and the George Soros‘ of the world.

And my site makes it plain I am no fan of Alex Jones and  all he touches. Many on the right glom on to him as some sort of truth teller, when he is anything but. For instance, just one linked story from my site:

And I will admit I feel bad for conservatism proper that so many “of my people” follow such a clown. I also wish to not defend the tactics or actions taken by Patriot Prayer of Proud Boys… also in the bottom half of the pyramid. But I do not cross them out as may of their goals are maligned/distorted by the media and the left.

 I also have some recent notes on this idea that the Left maligns everyone who is violent as “white supremists.” Here is my personal thoughts on the matter:

When “White Supremacists” Attack (UHaul Edition)

This has been bugging me for quite some time, and I wish to opine. Some here may know my biography a bit… but to catch you up a tad: Thirty-plus-years ago I was incarcerated a few times, mainly for 3-felonies. During my two longest stints in various L.A. County jail system (from Biscailuz, to H.O.J.J., to Super Max and Mira Loma – etc.). My first couple weeks in were a steep learning curve, as are most young persons. But in all my time in the system – about a year and a half – I never met a “white supremacist person of color.” Having met many actual Aryan Brotherhood members, Nazi Low Riders, white pride guys, and other white purists (like an Odinite I met), and the like. Not one was Mexican, Black, Indian (from India), yada-yada.

I also met many racist cult members other than the ones already mentioned who were likewise part of prison gangs, like: Black Guerilla Family (BGF), Barrio Azteca, Mexican Mafia (La Eme), and the like. While there is some cooperation between Whites and Hispanics at times in jail… I slept in what was called the “wood pile.”

I loved [even then] to talk politics and categorize things. The reason, for instance, I was removed from Biscailuz detention center was in my dorm I was asking all the Hispanic, Blacks, and White’s their set or gang affiliation or one’s they knew of. I had a very long list on two double sided legal paper notepad. Well… One guy said I was doing this because I was an undercover “po-po.” THAT caused a BIG problem, and I was removed before I was beaten to a pulp.

In my very long list – ironically confiscated by the Sheriff’s removing me – and although I am sure the Sheriff gang unit were/are aware of them all, maybe I got a sub-set they were not. So, the accusation was a self-fulfilling prophecy by the guy who initially accused me. Lol.

All that to say, studying quite a few religiously racist cults years later and racist origins/history…. I have never, ever met a non-white white supremacist.

Ever.

The cults I have spent some time investigating are [to name a few]:

  1. Christian Identity [defunct for the most part];
  2. the KKK [5,000 members];
  3. British Israelism;
  4. the Nation of Islam [NOI];
  5. Black Hebrew Israelites;
  6. and the Five Percent Nation of Gods and Earths

My studies have included getting original source materials from the founders of these movements, and watching copious amounts of members descriptions of their beliefs.

And in all that, the only time I hear about “white supremacist people of color” is from the “new-new” Democrats and the Left.

In other words, they do not exist outside of hyperbole the Left realizes keeps a voting block scared and in their pocket.

Period.

I have met and studied a lot about anti-Semitism in my time in jail and my studies. Anti-Semites come in all colors, creeds, and historical movements…

But never a black or brown white supremacist.

~ RPT

So the origin of the Proud Boys (PB) is a bit more innocent than they are painted to be. That doesn’t mean that people in any of these groups do not have people in them (like any group) that abuse the stated goals of these groups. And the “boys” [in America at least], are small government advocates. As are John Birchers as well.

Which brings me to the upper half of the chart. Three and four.

I note on my site, after years of studying racist movements, that all these groups (black or white) almost always vote democrat. Here, for instance is another excerpt from a post of mine detailing this:

Some Trump Sized Mantras

First, in the broad sense this has to be true… that is… somewhere in this nation I am sure a racist supports Donald J. Trump. Even if we assume the Klan all voted in unison, he would have gotten 8,000 votes at most! Nationwide.

HOWEVER, as you will see, even the above hypothetical is more complicated than most assume it to be. Let’s just clear the air first on this past charge of Trump not disavowing David Duke (a “famous” racist and past KKK leader) during the run-up-to the nomination: Trump clearly disavowed David Duke’s endorsement. As we will see, the truth about David Duke is more complicated than we often hear. Okay, moving on.

After Trump won the election the media and Hollywood types as well as comedians and Democrat Senators and Representatives all started saying there was a backlash of old-racist-white-men that came out in force and voted for Trump. This just isn’t the case. You can see from just a few of the bullet points from my “Blacks, Hispanics and Gays are Sexist, Xenophobic, Homophobic, Racist” post that this attack on American voters is just a maligning of each and everyone of those peoples character:

  • …Thirteen percent of Muslims voted for Trump, triple the amount that voted Romney, are they are Islamophobic, bigoted, xenophobic, and racist?
  • Eight percent of blacks voted for Trump, seven percent more than Romney — not to mention the black men and women who didn’t vote for the president at all in a higher percentage. These same men and women previously voted twice for Obama. These persons of color… if I understand my detractors correctly, are racist bigots?
  • A higher percentage (almost 30%) of Hispanics voted for Trump, more in fact than voted for Romney. These Hispanic and Latino men and women, like the others, are xenophobic, bigoted, and racist?
  • One hundred-and-ninety-four counties that voted for Obama once switched to GOP in the 2016 election. And, two-hundred-and-nine counties that voted for Obama twice switched to GOP. Many of these people are union members as well as life-long Democrats. Am I now being told that these Democrats who voted for Obama are: racist. sexist, intolerant, xenophobic, homophobic, Islamophobic, racist, bigoted?

So you can see from the above and the graphic below that the people who really pushed Trump into the “win” section of the electoral count were minorities and voters who previously voted for Obama either once or both times prior to voting for Trump.

I refer to this with a euphemism from a previous election as

“they were NOT racist before they WERE.”

In other words, according to people I dearly love, these people are now magically racists… but weren’t when they voted for Obama.

Most of these flipped voters were/are Democrats… am I now being told Democrats are racists?

Do you see the dilemma?

Even Michael Moore opined on this:

  • “They’re not racist,” Moore said on MSNBC’s Morning Joe, “They twice voted for a man whose middle name is Hussein. That’s the America you live in.”everything-is-racist-spongbob-380

However, let us delve into this even more to dispel commonly held myths.

Got your big-boy-pants on?

I have studied four racist cults in-depth: the Nation of Islam, the Ku Klux Klan, Christian Identity, and the Five-Percenters — known also as the Nation of Gods and Earths.

Two of the above four racist cults are both telling their followers to vote for Trump… the KKK and the Nation of Islam. Christian Identity as a cohesive movement is all but dead… and the 5% when they do vote always vote Democrat. IN FACT they all primarily vote Democrat.

A quick history point that is important for the next paragraph:

After the triumph of the civil rights movement and the introduction of a series of civil rights laws, the Klan broke up into various subgroups. Previously these KKK members were Democrats and they continued being so after.

  • “…virtually every significant racist in American political history was a Democrat.” — Bruce Bartlett, Wrong on Race: The Democratic Party’s Buried Past (New York, NY: Palgrave MacMillan, 2008), ix;
  • “…not every Democrat was a KKK’er, but every KKK’er was a Democrat.” — Ann Coulter, Mugged: Racial Demagoguery from the Seventies to Obama (New York, NY: Sentinel [Penguin], 2012), 19.

People do not realize why these groups, especially the KKK, vote Democrat. For instance, out of the four leaders in the “white-power” movement (the KKK subculture) with the most followers, three told their peeps to vote Democrat (Actually, then it was them telling their followers to vote for Obama in 2008).

Here you see some higher ups in this white racist movement telling their people (3-of-the-4) to vote Democrat for the election in 2008:

➤ Tom Metzger: Director, White Aryan Resistance; Career Highlights: Was Grand Dragon of Ku Klux Klan in the 70s; won the Democratic primary during his bid for Congress in 1980…
➤ Ron Edwards: Imperial Wizard, Imperial Klans of America; Career Highlights: Sued in 2007 by the Southern Poverty Law Center for inciting the brutal beating of a Latino teenager; building the IKA into one of the nation’s largest Klan groups by allowing non-Christians to join.
➤ Erich Gliebe: Chairman, National Alliance; Career Highlights: Turning white-power record label, Resistance Records, into a million-dollar-a-year business juggernaut; an 8-0 record as a professional boxer under the nickname, “The Aryan Barbarian.”
➤ Rocky Suhayda: Chairman, American Nazi Party; Career highlights: Being widely quoted bemoaning in the fact that so few Aryan-Americans had the cojones of the 9/11 hijackers: “If we were one-tenth as serious, we might start getting somewhere.”

Yes, most racist groups — INCLUDING THE KKK — voted for a black nominee.

The next question should be, Why?

Reason One
One reason is that these racist white groups are typically socialists. And socialism is a political system that wants the government to run health-care, business, increase central power, etc. Here is a most basic graph of this concept (see to the right – click the graph to go to my combined post on the matter).

“We are socialists, we are ene­mies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” — Hitler

John Toland, Adolph Hitler: The Definitive Biography (New York, NY: Anchor Books, 1976), 223-225.

Reason Two
Another reason a lot of racist whites vote Democrat is they are very poor and use heavily the social services they support ideologically. This was even evident when less than the typical 80% that vote straight Democrat still voted straight Democrat in their respective states but did not vote for Obama.

The other Black Nationalist cults vote heavier [percentage wise] Democratic.

This year is different. You have both Louis Farrakhan telling his followers to vote for Trump, and you have more people in the disjointed KKK telling their people to vote for him. Why this change? I think it is because he has many similar views on issues with Bernie Sanders, as an example,

  • Forty-four percent of Sanders supporters surveyed said they would rather back the presumptive GOP nominee in November, with only 23 percent saying they’d support Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton. And 31 percent said would support neither candidate in the likely general election match-up. (THE HILL)

Keep in mind those are voters in the state that put Sander’s into the Senate!

Here is the kicker though regarding the Nation of Islam (NOI). This cult, unlike the KKK, is VERY structured under a single leader. So what Farrakhan says is followed “religiously” by his adherents. Whereas, in the KKK, these leaders are not looked to in the same way Farrakhan is, as some sort of “messianic” figure. So you might have slightly more vote for Trump in the Klan on the recommendation of their leaders. This is different in the structure of the Nation of Islam, the percentages would be almost unanimous in their “lock-step.”

Many will continue to vote straight Democrat the rest of the ticket, in all groups mentioned.

“Racists Vote Republican,” or, “Republican’s Are Old Racist White Men” may be a convenient (actually evil) political narrative to scare a few voters away from the GOP, surely. But the maligning of every Republican nominee since Nixon just is not factually true.

DON’T accept the comparison. Take their arguments and return them packaged in a nice little bow.

Editor’s Aside:

Democrats want to fundamentally change America. I don’t love my wife if I want to fundamentally change her. Black Life Matters protesters teach their children to burn American flags or march down the street CHANTING “What do we want?!” “Dead Cops!” “When do we want them?!” “NOW!” They argue America was founded on nothing but slavery and greed. Hillary Clinton backed this group even going as far as far as saying (at the NAACP) that “systemic racism” needs to be eliminated. Months later calling Americans all racists: “I think implicit bias is a problem for everyone, not just police. I think unfortunately too many of us in our great country jump to conclusions about each other and therefore I think we need all of us to be asked the hard questions ‘why am I feeling this way?’”

Democrats think I am an imperialist white supremacist Christian cisgender capitalist heteropatriarchal male. Apparently however, these many demographic changes across the board [noted above] seem to agree that Trump’s slogan was acceptable, “Make America Great Again.”

One reason many of these hate groups (black and white) are voting for Trump is for border control. A) There is an animosity towards illegal aliens for racist reasons, and B) reasons related to economics as well. A great example would be this video “CHICAGO’S INNER-CITY POOR BLACK COMMUNITY ABANDONING OBAMA’S LIBERAL AGENDA“

To continue this point, one woman said this:

  • A resident of the Austin community, Jean Ray, says after 40 years of Democratic party control over the black community, the policies “are hurting,” and if there were Republicans willing to do the right job in her community, she would vote for them. (More at BREITBART)

So a good reason that black racist groups would have voted Trump includes practical economic concerns, i.e., jobs. Which is why we saw a 7% jump in blacks voting for the Republican candidate… but most likely even they voted Democrat the rest of the ticket.

Reason Three
They HATE (H-A-T-E) Israel, and this is a reason they tend to support Democrats. For instance, on his YouTube, David Duke endorsed Charles Barron for Congress (video on the left). Another endorsement for Hillary was from a KKK leader here in California (right video).

So attributing racism to the GOP is silly, because as a whole, the almost 8,000 KKK members nation wide vote Democrat. AS DO ALL THE OTHER RACIST CULTS IN AMERICA (*booming megaphone affect in a cave*). NOT TO MENTION where all the hub-bub is when all these hate groups vote for Democrats in years past?

In other words, WHY is it only “newsworthy” when they vote for Republicans and not for Democrats?

I smell something fishy here.

I can continue, but this post is already long enough. On the racial issues, I suggest my page entitled: U.S. RACIAL HISTORY. This page deals with the supposed party switch by racist Democrats to Republicans, slavery, American Indian narratives, some VERY PROUD BLACK HISTORY in our country… and the like.

Recap
Again, let’s recap for clarity some of my reasons white racist/nationalists cults vote Democrat:

  • They are typically socialist in their political views, and thus support the welfare state for personal financial reasons (poor) and ideological reasoning (socialist); or for the reason that it is a way of controlling minorities (racist reasoning). A modern plantation so-to-speak; There is a shared hatred for Israel and supporting of groups wanting to exterminate the Jews (Palestinians for instance).

This is why a majority STILL supported Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump. She is a socialist at heart, wants a big welfare state, and does not like Israel as much as Trump, who has kids practicing the Jewish religion. Thee ONLY issue a racist could want to vote for Trump on is his immigration policies… hardly a racist position. It has only now become an issue of bigotry and racism because the Left has moved the goal post in the use of language. Racists no longer means “genetically superior,” rather, it mean you disagree with a Democrat and/or hurt their feelings. Otherwise, these people would be RACISTS!

So the bottom line is that the top half of the pyramid has more in common with Leftist ideals of a larger government, and should be in a pyramid that includes ANTIFA and the beliefs of Michael Loadenthal.

So, as far as I can tell there are complete idiots at the FBI that follow the bad thinking of places like the Southern Poverty Law Center that further polluting the ideas that are soo easily refuted.

Here are just a couple examples of how the Left distorts reality:

THE SPLC!
An example of this infectious disease

The Southern Poverty Law Center bills itself as a watchdog of hate groups. But is this just a cover for its true aims? Journalist and author Karl Zinsmeister explains.

It is SHOCKING that the FBI works with this political cult!

MORE SPLC RADICALISM

GAY PATRIOT [now defunct, sadly] notes the radical attacks from Leftist organizations:

The Southern Poverty Law Center was, perhaps, once a civil rights organization. Then extremists spent its core assets – in this case, SPLC’s good word and reputation – until they were gone. SPLC now routinely mislabels conservative and/or Christian groups as so-called “hate groups”, emptying the term of meaning and making the SPLC a bad joke.

Most famously, SPLC mislabelled the Family Research Council a “hate group” for its stance against gay marriage, and in 2013 that prompted an attempted mass-murder by a gay activist, Floyd Lee Corkins II.

SPLC is still going. Most recently, they mislabelled the D. James Kennedy Ministries:

[…..]

The DJKM plan to fight back with a defamation suit. It will be interesting to see how it goes. I expect it to fail; “that’s our opinion” is a workable defense in many instances, and many in the law profession have a blind spot for the SPLC.

But I didn’t think Trump would win, either…..

(READ IT ALL)

Stossel!

The WASHINGTON EXAMINER goes after the partisan hate-group with this excellent article:

Newsrooms were on fire this week with terrible news: The number of hate groups in the United States has soared to record highs under President Trump.

There are most certainly hate groups in the U.S., and even one is one too many, but I’d encourage everyone to approach the numbers reported this week with calm and caution. There’s nothing partisan operatives would love more than for you to panic and to believe them when they suggest that the problem can be solved by expelling “the other team” from power. That the figures cited by newsrooms come via the decidedly unreliable and hyper-partisan Southern Poverty Law Center also doesn’t help anything.

The New York Times reported, “Over 1,000 Hate Groups Are Now Active in United States, Civil Rights Group Says.”

“Hate groups ‘surge’ across the country since Charlottesville riot, report says,” reads the headline from the Miami Herald.

“Trump ‘Fear-Mongering’ Fuels Rise of U.S. Hate Groups to Record: Watchdog,” U.S. News and World Report said in a headline that sort of gives the game away.

First, let’s keep things in perspective. Remember, for example, that the rise in the number of hate crimes is attributable in some way to the fact that there are more reporting agencies ( hundreds, in fact!) than ever before. It’s easy to say, “Oh, it’s all because of President Trump,” pointing to incidents like his disastrous Charlottesville statement. But the problem of bigotry is far older and deeper than the current administration. That the Trump White House isn’t helping anything is one complaint, but don’t fall for the suggestion that it’s the main driver.

Second, while we’re on the topic of taking things seriously, it’s important to remember that the SPLC is not an organization whose declarations should be taken seriously or treated as fact. As I’ve written before, much of its “hate group” reporting is trash.

In 2015, for example, the group put Department of Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson on its “extremist watch list,” citing the one-time presidential candidate’s “anti-LGBT views.” Later, in 2016, the SPLC labeled women’s rights activist, female genital mutilation victim, atheist, and ex-Muslim Ayaan Hirsi Ali an “anti-Muslim extremist” because she opposes Islamic extremism. The British activist and extremist-turned-counterextremist Maajid Nawaz was placed in the same category. The SPLC lumps pro-family and pro-Israel organizations in with actual neo-Nazis.

The SPLC is not in the business of exploring and addressing racial and ethnic bigotry. IT’S IN THE BUSINESS OF CRUSHING ANYTHING TO THE RIGHT OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

As for the report the SPLC just released this week, IT CONCEDES THERE IS AN UPTICK IN THE NUMBER OF BLACK NATIONALIST GROUPS SINCE 2017, BUT IT DOWNPLAYS THIS FACT BY CLAIMING THOSE GROUPS “HAVE LITTLE OR NO IMPACT ON MAINSTREAM POLITICS AND NO DEFENDERS IN HIGH OFFICE.” I must’ve just imagined noted-anti-Semite and frequent Democratic guest Louis Farrakhan.

[….]

Hate groups are real. Hate crimes are real. The SPLC is not. It exploits hate groups to raise money and further political interests unrelated to the problem of hate. Don’t fall for the SPLC’s lies.

(emphasis added — read it all)

RPT’s Thoughts on Ron Paul

Published by Papa Giorgio

Ron Paul DENIES conspiratorial beliefs about 9/11

Ron Paul AFFIRMS his belief in 9/11 conspiracies

The only thing that changed in the above videos is a public vs. a private setting.

American Spectator Article ~ Jeffrey Lord

The Ron Paul campaign is really about re-educating America to what can only be called Neoliberalism. Which, based on the evidence and writings of its supporters, appears to be a thin gruel of free markets and non-interventionism seasoned heavily with anti-Semitism, morally obtuse Neo-Confederates, and an outspoken contempt for both conservatism and conservative leaders past and present. ~ Jeffrey Lord

I was recently asked what I think about Ron Paul, and I realized that often I find myself in many-a-discussion about him.  So I figured that I would post this larger commentary on him in order to simply reference it in the future rather than have many small discussion on Ron Paul. Before I continue however, I wish to state a few positive things about him to start.

I would love an administration to put him in charge of auditing the Federal Reserve… I think that would be one of the greatest things to happen to this bureaucracy called government. He knows the Constitution well, and the like. But I focus on my dislikes of him more than the likes, only because I deal with many people who do not really know Ron Paul enough to come to a conclusion negatively about him.

Firstly, the voter who would pull the lever for Ron Paul if given a chance is wide and varied… and I think this is the case for a multitude of reasons. Pot-heads like him because he is a Presidential candidate that wants to nix most laws against drugs.  These people are not necessarily Libertarians (or even anarchists), and may want to increase the size and scope of government in the “cradle-to-grave” sense of social programs, but similar to some religious conservative’s position on single-issues (abortion for instance), they vote for Ron because in their mind’s eye this is the most important issue. That is, getting stoned without being arrested. These are typically Democrats or Green Party members in their voting habit when they do vote Party lines.

Obviously Libertarians (capital “L”) enjoy Ron Paul because he truly wishes to reduce the size of government to a level that most Ayn Rand style libertarians wish, as well as many conservatives. Where conservatives and capital “L” Libertarians differ is on drug laws, prostitution laws, and defense. For instance, Ron Paul often times talks about the Founder and their wanting to stop America from being embroiled in conflicts that didn’t involve the an immediate threat to our sovereignty. However, American history shows that the Founders embroiled our nation on many countries shores. I recommend the book that this quote comes from:

This was to be the first of many times that an American president would plot to overthrow a foreign government—a dangerous game but one that the Jefferson administration found as hard to pass up as many of its successors would. Wrote Madison:

“Although it does not accord with the general sentiments or views of the United States to intermiddle in the domestic contests of other countries, it cannot be unfair, in the prosecution of a just war, or the accomplishment of a reasonable peace, to turn to their advantage, the enmity and pretensions of others against a common foe.”

Max Boot, The Savage Wars of Peace: Small Wars and the Rise of American Power, pp. 23-24.

(source)

Many lower case “l” libertarians (like Eric Dondero over at Libertarian Republican [who worked for Ron Paul for near 15-years] and author/lawyer/and radio host ~ Larry Elder) still consider themselves libertarians (lower case), but want to effect policy by keeping the core of the Republican party true to the Constitutional Republic that was originally set up by its Founders. In other words, they realize they will never win in a third party situation — thus making their influence on politics null-and-void. The best way to change policy is to keep the Republican Party closer to their “classical liberal”, or “paleo-liberal” roots of small government — thus making their influence effectual. These people (like myself, like Reagan, like many conservatarians) want to get rid the Federal Government of at least eight departments, for instance: the Dept. of Agriculture, the Dept. of Education, and the like.

Many conservative Christians also enjoy Ron Paul because he is deeply involved in the conspiratorial view of history. This fits nicely into a portion of a Christian’s eschatology. From the Illuminati, to 9/11, to the New World Order (NWO), there seems to be an affinity to messages coming from Alex Jones and the Ron Paulers’ that believe there is a secret cabal running the world. What is interesting to me is that many Christians (which, as you will come to realize, I lump myself into) do not challenge their own positions on applying their eschatology to history. If we are to test our own faith against some standard, how much more peripheral aspects of it?

They [Christians] “anesthetize” themselves with religious positions they think are a) proven, as well as b) being above the normal verification principle – because they are “religious” in nature. This, believe it or not, is also why many stoners like him. I have met many an “anesthetized” person who believes the World Trade Towers were taken down by some governmental involvement and they feel some sort of affinity to Alex Jones and/or Ron Paul because of it. In fact, I would bet from personal experience that those who still believe that believed Bush was involved in the terror attacks on the Trade Towers from the original 35% of Democrats are primarily stoners (and those from the Republicans are primarily Christians who apply the NWO to Revelation).

They anesthetize themselves with mind numbing drugs that disorder critical thinking like many religious people do (most unwittingly). I KNOW, I WAS ONE OF THEM!

I think here we should break for those religiously minded to learn how to think a bit more critically about positions taken on history and conspiracies:

Reading about the Cold War and the meeting between Mao, Stalin, and Ho Chi Minh, is a great example of what I mention about this “secret cabal” keeping secret and unified what some blame them of keeping secret and unified on ~ it’s impossible. Even with this spreading of Communism what started out as unified effort became disjointed and fractured. Why? Man’s nature. I do not speak of a secular view of mankind that much like Rousseau believe we are good in our base nature, but a Biblical one.

From a close aid that worked for Ron Paul for 12-years:

  • “He [Ron Paul] is however, most certainly Anti-Israel wishes the Israeli state did not exist at all.”

(Gateway Pundit ~ LR)

Man’s proclivity to selfishness and opportunity will stop him from working well with his cohorts. You see this in every facet of life! Which is why the religious view of this NOW is self-deleting in my mind’s eye… the Christian gives more credence to man than God does.

[Differences] “The progressive sees racism and other evils as stages to move beyond; they are national problems to be solved, not human problems to be guarded against and punished. In fact, these evils are often made possible by the odd progressive belief that man will stop being bad if he is no longer restricted from being bad.”

Dale A. Berryhill, The Assault: Liberalism’s Attack on Religion, Freedom, and Democracy, (Lafayette LA: Huntington House Publishers, 1995), 31.

I critique a conservative view of conspiracism in a post on the documentary, The Agenda: Grinding America Down. You see, I was once the biggest NWO believers, having over a hundred books on the topic and every documentary the American Opinion Bookstore (AOB) had on the subject. I would visit Ezola Fosters’ store (when she was closer to the AOB) and have short interactions here-and-there before the time she ran as VP with Pat Buchanan. I was a John Bircher for many years and my turning back to my faith after jail threw me headlong into the fun study of eschatology.

I must point out from a post a long-time back that these conspiracy theories that some of the authors and speakers highlighted in Agenda believe in ultimately explains nothing:

I was once the biggest New World Order (NWO) guy there was. Ralph Epperson was a god of conspiracy theories in my view of history. But when I started to draw these conclusions out to their logical ends and started tracking down references used by these writers, I found that this belief is just that, a belief.

Listen, I will give a parallel to one of the many reasons I reject Darwinism as a reason that includes the rejection of the conspiratorial view of history.

“The underlying problem is that a key Darwinian term is not defined. Darwinism supposedly explains how organisms become more ‘fit,’ or better adapted to their environment. But fitness is not and cannot be defined except in terms of existence. If an animal exists, it is ‘fit’ (otherwise it wouldn’t exist). It is not possible to specify all the useful parts of that animal in order to give an exhaustive causal account of fitness. [I will add here that there is no way to quantify those unknowable animal parts in regards to the many aspects that nature could or would impose on all those parts.] If an organism possesses features that appears on the surface to be an inconvenient – such as the peacock’s tail or the top-heavy antlers of a stag – the existence of stags and peacocks proves that these animals are in fact fit. So the Darwinian theory is not falsifiable by any observation. It ‘explains’ everything, and therefore nothing. It barely qualifies as a scientific theory for that reason…. The truth is that Darwinism is so shapeless that it can be enlisted is support of any cause whatsoever…. Darwinism has over the years been championed by eugenicists, social Darwinists, racialists, free-market economists, liberals galore, Wilsonian progressives, and National Socialists, to give only a partial list. Karl Marx and Herbert Spencer, Communists and libertarians, and almost anyone in between, have at times found Darwinism to their liking.”

From an article by Tom Bethell in The American Spectator (magazine), July/August 2007, pp. 44-46.

So to is the conspiratorial view of history (Bilderbergers, Council of Foreign Relations, Banking Institutions, Rosicrucians, The Knights Templars, on-and-on). It is used by Marxists to libertarians and anarchists, liberal and conservatives. If someone or something disproves an aspect of this theory that person is a “shill” or the fact has been planted. It explains everything and therefore nothing.

(source)

A great example of this is comments one can find all over the Net, every fact or discrepancy is explained by the theory:

  • Alex Jones is being used by the elite. Why would Barbara Walters, a member of the CFR, have someone like Alex Jones on her show [the View]?

It explains nothing. Speaking from experience however, over time, I myself saw conspiracy EVERYWHERE. But a few things happened.

The first red flag for me: The John Birch magazine (The New American) said the government was somehow involved with the Murrah Federal building in Kansas (William F. Jasper, “Proof of Bombs and Cover-up,” The New American 14, no. 15 [July 1998]: 10-15.). I talk a bit about my transition from conspiracy guy to “normal” guy in my chapter on postmodernism in the church (see pages 7-10 of my chapter in my book). This is much of the business that surrounds conspiracies, that is, “unnamed sources.”

The second red flag for me was Y2K: Mind you, this was one of the few scares that incorporated in its believers people from all religious and political persuasions. But the stuff being said would happen by conspiracy minded people proved to be the death knell for any objectivity I previously afforded them.

The third thing was Michael Medved: I started to listen to Michael Medved’s Conspiracy Show where, on every full moon people get to call in for the full three hours of his show and talk conspiracies. I then returned to many of these books and reevaluated them; this time not taking for granted the sweeping claims of history as fact, but checking them out. I followed references, tracked down quotes, and the like. I finally realized this was something that thinking Christians can reject.

WHAT does this have to with Ron Paul — I am sure you are wondering.

Well, Ron Paul was a big supporter of the ideas fueling the John Birch Society. I know this because of a lecture I sat in on by Ron Paul and talking to friends close to his reelection people. I even had a short convo with him (face-to-face) about this New American issue about the CIA being involved in the Oklahoma bombing). He intimated he thought something was very fishy. Ron Paul is a believer in this evil cabal that causes these big events and catastrophes in history (WWI, WWII, Communism, capitalism, 9/11, and the like). For instance, here he is responding to a question on this topic:

New World Order – One World Government

On the Bilderbergers

So the question becomes: What do political/racist-cults, crazy liberal Cindy Sheehan, Marxist/pro Gaddafi Cynthia McKinney, and Ron Paul all have in common?

The answer?

Alex Jones.

As well as a belief that the U.S. Government, via conspiracies, was either a) behind the World Trade Towers attack, or b) knew of the attack and moved to strip us of our rights and to make money on Wall Street, or c) both.

For those who don’t know, Alex Jones is an absolute nut. From UFO’s to mind-control, this guy covers it all. But he is best known for his view that there is a secret cabal of bankers and corporate bigwigs that control… well… everything. If there are facts that disprove his theory, those facts are merely planted. This “control of everything” means anything that disagrees with the conspiratorial position is itself a conspiracy.

See my Alex Jones section, HERE

Ron Paul regularly appears on his radio show for Prison Planet, even as recent as July of 2011 (the link works even though it is showing a strike through it). Even his “Daily Paul” site posts this song about being crazy like Alex Jones (the link works even though it is showing a strike through it). So besides aligning himself with the belief that Bush and others in government (and throughout history, the Illuminati) regularly attack our own interests, Ron Paul also works closely with those he says he stands against.

There use to be a video [now gone] of Alex Jones falsely asserting that Galileo was imprisoned for saying the earth is round. Everyone knew at the time of Galileo that the earth was round, nor was he imprisoned for this belief. My point here is that if he got this easily known historical fact wrong — how much more should you distrust his claims in regards to 9/11?

FOXNews talks about Ron Paul’s conspiracy views discussed after a debate in the 2008 nomination process:

Alex Jones interviews Cindy Sheehan during the DNC 2008

Remember, Cindy supports Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro. The question is, how can “Constitutionalists” (something Alex Jones says of himself and Ron Paul) support these views? Take note as well of the photo’s shown during this audio presentation… this is the type of thinking that are riding on Ron Paul’s coat tails. This movement will be the root-cause (if there ever were to be one) of anarchy and WWIII, not bankers and corporate heads. Marxists love Ron Paul, Alex Jones, and Cindy Sheehan. They are “Revolutionaries,” not General Electric and Citi Bank:

Cynthia McKinney’s Speech on Alex Jones “Prison Planet”

The following couple videos will show that another person who appears on Alex Jones’ radio show and in one of his documentaries ~ALONGSIDE RON PAUL~ her belief in  our involvement with 9/11, Iraq war mantras, anti-Israel, and the like.

Cynthia McKinney’s Exit from Congress.

Her “security detail” are from the New Black Panthers, who are Marxist in their politics. They are what I like to term a political cult. Here is a short clip about her security detail getting into a tussle with “white folk,” otherwise known as “crackers.” She is a racist and surrounds herself with racists (shown later):

This example of Ron Paul’s intimate relationship in the past with the John Birch Society, there crazy evolved conspiracies beyond the sounding of the group, with Alex Jones, and doing documentaries about 9/11 with Cynthia McKinney exclude Ron Paul from my list as a serious candidate in any respect. The last portion of this post should not be see as “guilt by coincidence,” but, “guilt by proxy.” Guilt by proxy is a much more powerful connection that by chance. Another reason I dislike him is that whenever he looses a primary run he always asks his followers to vote Green Party, or Independent, rather than Republican… another hint he is not truly a Republican!

This comes a day after the second round of “debates” between the 2012 Republican Presidential contenders. Here are some reasons NOT to vote for Ron Paul.

Charlie Sheens Crazy Rants with Crazy Alex Jones-Two and a Half Men Cancelled

Published by Papa Giorgio

Two and a Half Men canceled for the rest of this season. Charlie Sheen displayed the psychology of where this extreme conspiratorial view of history — when unchecked and drug fueled — can go. I can think of a dozen verses from Proverbs off the top of my head and a few parables from The Man Himself that could apply to Sheen’s pride and pompousness, that aside, here is the story[ies]:

Yep, things between Two And A Half Men star Charlie Sheen and creator Chuck Lorre just got a lot worse. Following his verbal assault on Lorre, whom he calls by his “real name Chaim Levine”, in a radio interview this morning, Sheen went way further in a TMZ interview this afternoon. “I violently hate Haim Levine,” Sheen said in what is probably the harshest statement by a series star about their showrunner. “He’s a stupid, stupid little man and a p**sy punk that I’d never want to be like. That’s me being polite. That piece of s**t took money out of my pocket, my family’s pocket, and, most importantly, my second family — my crew’s pocket… You can tell him one thing.  I own him.” He proceeded to challenge Lorre to a fight. “If he wins, then he can leave MY show, Sheen said.

[….]

In the bizarre interview, Sheen offered Jones’ much stronger proof that he is “100% clean” that the host probably bargained for: “Here’s your first pee test, next one goes in your mouth. No, you won’t get high.” Sheen also claimed he cured his drug problems with his mind.

But among ramblings about trolls, Bible grippers and Vatican assassins, one line stood out, a quote from Apocalypse Now: “You do have the right to kill me but do not have the right to judge me.”

[….]

As Two And A Half Men star Charlie Sheen’s erratic behavior escalated today in a series of verbal assaults on the show’s creator-executive producer Chuck Lorre, the sitcom’s network and studio did the only thing they could in the situation: pull the plug.  But they only did it for this season. (Two and a Half Men was scheduled to resume production on Monday for 4 more episodes). So the door is left open for a possible ninth season. “Based on the totality of Charlie Sheen’s statements, conduct and condition, CBS and Warner Bros TV have decided to discontinue production of Two and a Half Men for the remainder of the season,” the two companies said in a statement.

The question now is should Two And A Half Men continue? Could the damage done over the past few weeks ever be repaired. And most importantly, will Sheen come back from the brink?

The production shutdown decision was a dramatic ending to a really fascinating day in which Hollywood witnessed a star’s self-destruction. First, in a bizarre rant on The Alex Jones radio show this morning, Sheen called Lorre a “charlatan” and a “turd” and would only refer to him by his “real name, Chaim Levine.” “Chaim, last time I checked, I spent close to the last decade effortlessly and magically converting your tin cans into pure gold,” said Sheen, responding to a tongue-in-cheek vanity card Lorre recently posted on Men that ended with “If Charlie Sheen outlives me, I’m gonna be really pissed.”

Things escalated in the afternoon when Sheen, currently vacationing in the Bahamas with a girlfriend, ex-wife and a porn star, reached out to TMZ. “I violently hate Chaim Levine,” Sheen said. “He’s a stupid, stupid little man and a p**sy punk that I’d never want to be like. That’s me being polite.”

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Liberal Violence vs. Tea Party Violence (Plus Alex Jones Craziness)

Published by Papa Giorgio

Original Post Title:

  • Will Documented Liberal Violence Be Dealt With When Undocumented Tea Party Violence Was Demanded to Be Dealt With? (Plus: Alex Jones Craziness)

FoundingBloggers has [had… gone off the WWW now] a great “investigative” report, seeing if the same question would engender the same violence it did from Bob Etheridge. (This is with thanks to BigGovernment) This question, “do you fully support the Obama agenda,” is only a dangerous question in D.C., where the Left believes in an unquestioned adherence to their political will/agenda… so much so, that any misstep demands a “Who Are You!”

To catch you up to speed on the FoundingBloggers Alex Jones revealing of his fascistic attitude, here is is. The fascists yelling over their opposition (see the “TigerHawk” and “Audacious Epigone” examples in that post) used in the rise of Hitler is on display here by Alex Jones. He should look in the mirror.

 

These FEMA Camps were debunked, as shown here:

FEMA Camp Video Debunked – Crockett, Texas

I have a “FEMA CAMP” debunking page… but all the videos have disappeared. Not because of a conspiracy, but because these are really old videos and peoples accounts are closed for a variety of reasons. This (and the others I will upload as I find them) have a very low resolution. I will sharpen them a bit, but they become grainy (fair warning). This comes from an old “TEA Party” era radio show (VLOG/podcast). Enjoy the preservation of an important debunking of the FEMA Camps B.S. I will post my link to my page when I rebuild it. But POPULAR MECHANICS has a decent debunking. Also METABUNK has an excellent post on this.

SEE ALSO my Alex Jones part of my PAGE showing he is a fruit cake at best!

Spurious History Supporting Spurious Conspiracies

Published by Papa Giorgio

This quote has shown up recently on some Face Book posts of high school acquaintances, so, I wanted to set the historical record straight all the while empathizing with the posters because I use to use this quote often when I was on this mindset:

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property” 

~ THOMAS JEFFERSON (CIRCA – 1802)

Now, some here may know that i am not a huge Ron Paul fan personally. I know from hearing him in person as well as Ezola Foster at an event that he holds to the conspiratorial view of history. While I think he has backed off of his previous John Birch Society thinking (as did I, but to a larger extent), he is still liked by the “Alex Jones” sheople out there in the ether of the www. So here we can see Ron Paul gets inundated with this quote from his conspiracy followers quite a bit, so much so he had to put the breaks on it. We can see this because he titled this post, “Can we please stop propagating the fake Jefferson quote about ‘PRIVATE BANKS’?” In this post he states the following:

This is a fake. No one has been able to say where Jefferson wrote this. It’s been spreading around the internet and has even made it in a few books (unsourced). This book points out that the quote is “spurious:” (The term “deflation” cannot even be traced back further than 1920, and the term “inflation” 1864 – long after Jefferson died).