Logical Ends of TULIP (No Rebellious Creatures)

If determinism is true then either God is evil and the author of evil or all talk of good and evil, of praise and blame, of moral responsibility, and of justice is meaningless and incomprehensible with reference to God. That is, if God can cause or determine evil and yet remain good, and if God can punish those who do exactly and only what He has meticulously caused and determined them to do and yet remain just, then we have no idea who God is or what He might or might not do or what Scripture could possibly mean when it calls Him “good” and “just.” (Günther H. Juncker, “The Dilemma of Theistic Determinism”)

JUMP TO:

So, on my Facebook, I posted the following statement:

This actually garnered some attention, some of which I will note below, as, it led to me unfriending someone [PETER DH] because he refused to engage in conversation. Part of the reason he refused was surely a pride issue. Showing that there was no self reflection on his own narcissistic tendencies. [I am using specific language here that will become apparent as you read along.]

However, first I feel I must explain the above. Here is an adapted response to a friend, TODD, whom I would wish to emulate in conversation, unlike PETER.

I do not think people understand, or should I say, follow TULIP to it’s logical end. Calvin did, and Piper and many others have. While they use [warp] language to try and skirt the issue, they would rather bring God’s nature low and introduce not mysteries into theology, but philosophical contradictions. So, God ends up being the author of evil and man has no accountability. He can do no other. Why… not because of mother nature – that would be GAIA paganism. Our nature is because of God [in Calvinism/TULIP]. Romans says we have no excuse… this seems like the perfect one to me.

Again, I honestly do not think ppl understand TULIP. Nor do I think they understand my quoting of Calvin and others. They all think salvation [and damnation] are 100% God’s choice, and 0% mans [as in humankind]. Calvin even taught that Adam and Eve did not have free will. So, Piper, White, Calvin, etc., etc. say that. Not me. I am merely passing on how founders and theologians define it. Again, Wayne Grudem doesn’t even think we pray real – free – prayers.

💥Total Depravity: Sin controls every part of man. He is spiritually dead and blind, and unable to obey, believe, or repent. He continually sins, for his nature is completely evil. We do not believe in mother nature. [adapted from MacArthur] This condition of man is by God’s design.
💥Unconditional Election: God chose the elect solely on the basis of his free grace, not anything in them. He has a special love for the elect. God left the rest to be damned for their sins. [ALSO TRUE: Unconditional Reprobation – which is counter to God’s holiness.]
💥Irresistible Grace: Saving grace is irresistible, for the Holy Spirit is invincible and intervenes in man’s heart. He sovereignly gives the new birth, faith, and repentance to the elect. PPL have to be ontologically changed [given a new heart] first in order to say, “I had a bad heart” [They cannot -on Calvinism’s account- ask for one.]

This is why Calvinism has created second category of many ideas that muddy the water of the simple Gospel: Calvinism requires..

  • 2 types of love expressed by God
  • 2 types of grace via God
  • 2 callings from God
  • 2 wills of God
  • ETC

“Not one drop of rain falls without God’s sure command.”  (Calvin)

“God by his secret bridle so holds and governs (persons) that they cannot move even one of their fingers without it accomplishing the work of God much more than their own.” (Calvin)

In order to understand this better, theologians have come up with the term “compatibilism” to describe the concurrence of God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility. Compatibilism is a form of determinism and it should be noted that this position is no less deterministic than hard determinism. — John Hendryx

John Hendryx is the creator and editor of Monergism . com). This quote from an article at Hendryx’s site was sent from Phil Johnson to Leighton Flowers during a back n forth on Twitter.

Viewing man from a compatibilist perspective means that while fallen man freely chooses to sin, he cannot freely choose to believe in the Gospel unless God gives him a new nature and past that assures he will “freely choose” to exercise faith in Christ; however, in either state, man cannot choose to do other than he did choose because while freely choosing, he has no salvific choice.

It is God’s choice, call, and changing a person to say yes, irresistibly. So, there is no “offer,” there is only force – for the believer and for the damned.

Now, the person I responded to regarding this, someone different that PETER DH, is someone who can feel obliged to disagree, respond, challenge, and the like. Knowing we are still both lovers of Christ — we just disagree with each others theology [and philosophy] of soteriology…. and the working out of God’s character via TULIP.

I myself believe like article three of the Baptist Faith and Message creed says (pic to the right).

Unlike PETER DH, who came in accusing me of anti-Christian, Marxist, Narcissism and the persecution of the saints… Todd is much better at exchanges, and honestly, I wish to be more like him in such conversations. Todd is gracious and honest, and I am proud to know him — even if only what I term as a “cyber friend” — and battle crazy Leftists with him.

As an example of the crazy shit PETER DH said:

  • Stop persecuting Christians for faith in Jesus Christ alone. And be honest about yourself; you are no Christian but a narcissist who believes himself superior to everyone else.

And to some extent, the Bible calls everyone, especially those born again, to battle one’s pride. So he is partially right about that. But as you will see, PETER’s broad claims show how many in the “Reformed” tradition think they are elect-elect. Saying they are “humbled by the Doctrines of Grace, but are in fact scared to death [not all] to look down the “corridors of time” and bring statements to their logical conclusions.

Because, if theistic determinism is true, then thought and choice are mere illusions. Al Mohler speaks to this a bit in this article that I excerpt:

The diverse theories of determinism propose that our choices and decisions are not an exercise of the will, but simply the inevitable outcome of factors outside our control. As Scientific American explains, determinists argue that “everything that happens is determined by what happened before — our actions are inevitable consequences of the events leading up to the action.”

In other words, free will doesn’t exist. Used in this sense, free will means the exercise of authentic moral choice and agency. We choose to take one action rather than the other, and must then take responsibility for that choice.

This link between moral choice and moral responsibility is virtually instinctive to humans. As a matter of fact, it is basic to our understanding of what it means to be human. We hold each other responsible for actions and choices. But if all of our choices are illusory — and everything is merely the “inevitable consequence” of something beyond our control, moral responsibility is an exercise in delusion.

(I found this article via a SOTERIOLOGY 101 video)

This is why books like “Anyone Can Be Saved” are written, to protect the Gospel message of Good News! I agree with the back cover description that says: “that any person who hears the gospel can be saved” – Amen and Amen! [a scan of my copy is to the right]:

  • Anyone Can Be Saved articulates a biblical-theological explanation of the doctrine of salvation in light of the rise of Calvinistic theology among Southern Baptist churches in the United States. Ten scholars, pastors, and leaders advocate for the ten articles of the Traditional Statement by appealing to Scripture, the Baptist Faith and Message, and a variety of biblical, theological, and philosophical writings. Although many books address the doctrine of salvation, these authors consciously set aside the Calvinist-Arminian presuppositions that have framed this discussion in western theol­ogy for centuries. The contributors are unified in their conviction that any person who hears the gospel can be saved, a view that was found among earlier Baptists as well as other Christian groups today. This book is not meant to be the final word on Southern Baptist soteriology, but is offered as a peaceable contribution to the wider conversation on the doctrine of salvation.

In a post on the issue of “theistic determinism” and freedom to choose Why Both Atheists and Christians Need to Believe in Free Will and a post years before the realization of the same deterministic contradictions within TULIP, I posted this long refutation of quotes and media of atheistic determinism: Evolution Cannot Account for: Logic, Reasoning, Love, Truth, or Justice

Here are some quotes that apply as well to Calvinism and “Reformed” thinking as well as the atheist, all of these are challenges “godly determined outcomes” in Calvinism:

Atheism—pure, unadulterated atheism…. The universe was matter only, and eternal Spirit was a word without a meaning. Liberty was a word without a meaning. There was no liberty in the universe; liberty was a word void of sense. Every thought, word, passion, sentiment, feeling, all motion and action was necessary [determinism]. All beings and attributes were of eternal necessity; conscience, morality, were all nothing but fate. This was their creed, and this was to perfect human nature, and convert the earth into a paradise of pleasure… Why, then, should we abhor the word “God,” and fall in love with the word “fate”? We know there exists energy and intellect enough to produce such a world as this, which is a sublime and beautiful one, and a very benevolent one, notwithstanding all our snarling; and a happy one, if it is not made otherwise by our own fault.

(See more context)

Here is Frank Turek in his book “Stealing from God: Why Atheists Need God to Make Their Case” showing how determinism collapses:

If what he says is true, he says it merely as the result of his heredity and environment, and nothing else. He does not hold his determinist views because they are true, but because he has such-and-such stimuli; that is, not because the structure of the structure of the universe is such-and-such but only because the configuration of only part of the universe, together with the structure of the determinist’s brain, is such as to produce that result…. They [determinists – I would posit any philosophical naturalist] want to be considered as rational agents arguing with other rational agents; they want their beliefs to be construed as beliefs, and subjected to rational assessment; and they want to secure the rational assent of those they argue with, not a brainwashed repetition of acquiescent pattern. Consistent determinists should regard it as all one whether they induce conformity to their doctrines by auditory stimuli or a suitable injection of hallucinogens: but in practice they show a welcome reluctance to get out their syringes, which does equal credit to their humanity and discredit to their views. Determinism, therefore, cannot be true, because if it was, we should not take the determinists’ arguments as being really arguments, but as being only conditioned reflexes. Their statements should not be regarded as really claiming to be true, but only as seeking to cause us to respond in some way desired by them.

J. R. Lucas, The Freedom of the Will (New York: NY: Oxford University Press, 1970), 114, 115.

One of the most intriguing aspects mentioned by Ravi Zacharias of a lecture he attended entitled Determinism – Is Man a Slave or the Master of His Fate, given by Stephen Hawking, who is the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at Cambridge, Isaac Newton’s chair, was this admission by Dr. Hawking’s, was Hawking’s admission that if “we are the random products of chance, and hence, not free, or whether God had designed these laws within which we are free.”[1]In other words, do we have the ability to make choices, or do we simply follow a chemical reaction induced by millions of mutational collisions of free atoms?[2] Michael Polyni mentions that this “reduction of the world to its atomic elements acting blindly in terms of equilibrations of forces,” a belief that has prevailed “since the birth of modern science, has made any sort of teleological view of the cosmos seem unscientific…. [to] the contemporary mind.”[3]

[1] Ravi Zacharias, The Real Face of Atheism (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 2004), 118, 119.
[2] My own summation.
[3] Michael Polanyi and Harry Prosch, Meaning (Chicago, IL: Chicago university Press, 1977), 162.

What merit would attach to moral virtue if the acts that form such habitual tendencies and dispositions were not acts of free choice on the part of the individual who was in the process of acquiring moral virtue? Persons of vicious moral character would have their characters formed in a manner no different from the way in which the character of a morally virtuous person was formed—by acts entirely determined, and that could not have been otherwise by freedom of choice.

Mortimer J. Adler, Ten Philosophical Mistakes (New York, NY: Touchstone, 1985), 154.

If we were free persons, with faculties which we might carelessly use or willfully misuse, the fact might be explained; but the pre-established harmony excludes this supposition. And since our faculties lead us into error, when shall we trust them? Which of the many opinions they have produced is really true? By hypothesis, they all ought to be true, but, as they contradict one another, all cannot be true. How, then, distinguish between the true and the false? By taking a vote? That cannot be, for, as determined, we have not the power to take a vote. Shall we reach the truth by reasoning? This we might do, if reasoning were a self-poised, self verifying process; but this it cannot be in a deterministic system. Reasoning implies the power to control one’s thoughts, to resist the processes of association, to suspend judgment until the transparent order of reason has been readied. It implies freedom, therefore. In a mind which is controlled by its states, instead of controlling them, there is no reasoning, but only a succession of one state upon another. There is no deduction from grounds, but only production by causes. No belief has any logical advantage over any other, for logic is no longer possible.

Borden P Bowne, Metaphysics: A Study In First Principles (originally published in 1882; London: Sampson Low, Searle & Rivington, 2005), 105.

How do leaders like Piper see God’s determining power that controls mankind? Here is a snippet from a book he was co-editor on:

Ephesians 1:11 goes even further by declaring that God in Christ

“works all things according to the counsel of his will.” Here the Greek word for “works” is energeø, which indicates that God not merely carries all of the universe’s objects and events to their appointed ends but that he actually brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes—as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem—God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child: “The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil” (Prov. 16:4, NASB ).14 “When times are good, be happy; but when times are bad, consider: God has made the one as well as the other” (Eccl. 7:14, NIV).

John Piper and Justin Taylor, eds., Suffering and the Sovereignty of God (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Books, 2006), 42.

And in an article and debate found at Premier Christianity, we read:

Losing love and justice 

Reflection on the subject has led me to agree with Ward. The compatibilist view seems (to quote Kant) a “wretched subterfuge”. Our free will is not truly free if determinism is still the bottom line.

There are major problems created by both Christian and atheist determinism. Firstly, there are two major casualties when we dispense with free will in the Calvinist framework. Love and justice.

Love is only truly love when freely given and freely received.

We are familiar with the fairy tale of the enchantress who puts the prince under a spell to make him ‘love’ her. But we know it’s not really love – it’s a delusion. Being manipulated in such a way is the opposite of love. By the same token, if God has pre-contrived our every desire so that we had no other option but to love our wife, love our children and to love him, then we are acting as little more than robots.

Likewise, any meaningful sense of justice is also lost under the deterministic view of God.

Can the person who commits a heinous offence be judged guilty of a crime if they were bound to act in such a way by the divine decree of God? Indeed, it could be argued that God himself is more culpable than they are. Equally, how can those God has predestined to hell be considered guilty of rejecting him, if they had no option to choose him?

Atheist determinists must face exactly the same problems and questions as their Calvinist counterparts. The truth is, it’s difficult to ground love, justice or any of the values that make life meaningful in a purely material universe. As Bertrand Russell, one of the 20th Century’s most renowned atheists, wrote: “Man is the product of causes which had no prevision of the end they were achieving…his origin, his growth, his hopes and fears, his loves and his beliefs, are but the outcome of accidental collocations of atoms.”

Cheery stuff. But the problem is even worse for atheist determinists than they realise. For, in such an accidental universe, how can they even trust in their own choice to be an atheist?

Losing reason

Most atheists I know pride themselves on the use of reason and evidence in their arguments against God. But, in a purely naturalistic worldview, all that’s really happening at a fundamental level is a variety of atoms bumping into other atoms, triggering electrochemical responses in the brain. What’s more, because the universe runs on the deterministic principle of cause and effect, all of those collisions were predetermined in the distant past. You and your beliefs are the product of a long chain of inevitable physical events.

So when you come to the conclusion that there is no God, that’s just the way your brain happens to end up fizzing. And when I claim that there is a God, that’s just the way my brain fizzes. But the atoms aren’t doing any reasoning. It’s all just a series of physical events – snooker balls bouncing off each other. They aren’t the least bit interested in the truth or falsity of the thoughts they are producing.

As CS Lewis wrote: “If minds are wholly dependent on brains, and brains on biochemistry, and biochemistry (in the long run) on the meaningless flux of the atoms, I cannot understand how the thought of those minds should have any more significance than the sound of the wind in the trees.”

(READ IT ALL)

I have more in another post, but this excerpt of CS LEWIS is needed here, and it deals with the opening quote at the “tippy-top” of the post from Günther H. Juncker:

“Divine Goodness”

Any consideration of the goodness of God at once threat­ens us with the following dilemma.

On the one hand, if God is wiser than we His judge­ment must differ from ours on many things, and not least on good and evil. What seems to us good may therefore not be good in His eyes, and what seems to us evil may not be evil.

On the other hand, if God’s moral judgement differs from ours so that our ‘black’ may be His ‘white’, we can mean nothing by calling Him good; for to say ‘God is good’, while asserting that His goodness is wholly other than ours, is really only to say ‘God is we know not what’. And an utterly unknown quality in God cannot give us moral grounds for loving or obeying Him. If He is not (in our sense) ‘good’ we shall obey, if at all, only through fear—and should be equally ready to obey an omnipotent Fiend. The doctrine of Total Depravity— when the consequence is drawn that, since we are totally depraved, our idea of good is worth simply nothing— may thus turn Christianity into a form of devil-worship.

The escape from this dilemma depends on observing what happens, in human relations, when the man of infe­rior moral standards enters the society of those who are better and wiser than he and gradually learns to accept their standards—a process which, as it happens, I can describe fairly accurately, since I have undergone it. When I came first to the University I was as nearly with­out a moral conscience as a boy could be. Some faint dis­taste for cruelty and for meanness about money was my utmost reach—of chastity, truthfulness, and self-sacrifice I thought as a baboon thinks of classical music. By the mercy of God I fell among a set of young men (none of them, by the way, Christians) who were sufficiently close to me in intellect and imagination to secure immediate intimacy, but who knew, and tried to obey, the moral law. Thus their judgement of good and evil was very different from mine. Now what happens in such a case is not in the least like being asked to treat as ‘white’ what was hitherto called black. The new moral judgements never enter the mind as mere reversals (though they do reverse them) of previous judgements but ‘as lords that are certainly expected’. You can have no doubt in which direction you are moving: they are more like good than the little shreds of good you already had, but are, in a sense, continuous with them. But the great test is that the recognition of the new standards is accompanied with the sense of shame and guilt: one is conscious of having blundered into soci­ety that one is unfit for. It is in the light of such experi­ences that we must consider the goodness of God. Beyond all doubt, His idea of ‘goodness’ differs from ours; but you need have no fear that, as you approach it, you will be asked simply to reverse your moral standards. When the relevant difference between the Divine ethics and your own appears to you, you will not, in fact, be in any doubt that the change demanded of you is in the direction you already call ‘better’. The Divine ‘goodness’ differs from ours, but it is not sheerly different: it differs from ours not as white from black but as a perfect circle from a child’s first attempt to draw a wheel. But when the child has learned to draw, it will know that the circle it then makes is what it was trying to make from the very beginning.

This doctrine is presupposed in Scripture. Christ calls men to repent—a call which would be meaningless if God’s standards were sheerly different from that which they already knew and failed to practise. He appeals to our existing moral judgement—‘Why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?’ (Luke 12:57) God in the Old Testament expostulates with men on the basis of their own concep­tions of gratitude, fidelity, and fair play: and puts Himself, as it were, at the bar before His own creatures—‘What iniquity have your fathers found in me, that they are gone far from me?’ (Jeremiah 2:5.)


CS Lewis | The Problem of Pain (Chapter 3)

What a horrible view of God if Calvinism is true. And it is this “if God’s moral judgement differs from ours so that our ‘black’ may be His ‘white’, we can mean nothing by calling Him good”, and this is the bottom line. It is not an antinomy to be accepted and inserted into Biblical truth. It is a lie from the pit of hell. AGAIN!

  • If determinism is true then either God is evil and the author of evil or all talk of good and evil, of praise and blame, of moral responsibility, and of justice is meaningless and incomprehensible with reference to God. That is, if God can cause or determine evil and yet remain good, and if God can punish those who do exactly and only what He has meticulously caused and determined them to do and yet remain just, then we have no idea who God is or what He might or might not do or what Scripture could possibly mean when it calls Him “good” and “just.” (Günther H. Juncker, “The Dilemma of Theistic Determinism”)

Okay, back to this:

Here is how the conversation started with a friend (click to enlarge), I removed last names for privacy:

Now let’s shift gears to PETER and his train wreck of a response[s]. I am going to be lazy and just have picture of the discussion:

In the matter of a few minutes, PETER managed to post many comments on on other parts of my Facebook wall. This one almost every Christian could say “amen” to, but PETER has the rose colored glasses of Augustinian semi-Gnosticism in view here, so it is tainted to say the least:

However, I wanted to start with the comment I have the red arrow pointing to, because this was a test [in my mind] to see what kind of man I was dealing with. Someone who was honest and humble enough to admit when he was wrong – and so someone worth engaging with? Or was he like the prideful, not willing to admit when in error and correct it. I found out:

At this point PETER [I can only assume] saw the date of the publication of the above and the below source I quoted from. Why? because this was the next “timeline” out of his keyboard — at the bottom of this run:

This is when I knew I was dealing with someone note willing to pause and reassess his plain statement of the origin of the word. So I pressed a bit more…

So I made the point stronger, called out PETER to once again retract his statement, whether he was ignorant of the facts, or so blinded by his worldview (semi-Gnosticism) that his pride was narcissistically holding his tongue hostage. right after the above I posted this as well as part of the above:

He never showed any form of humility and acquiesced to the evidence. His election via Unconditional Election and Irresistible Grace seemingly didn’t move the pendulum on the “T” in TULIP… at all. So I opted to unfriend him rather than he continuing to lie on my FB wall. What was/is the final outcome of the whole “debacle”? I will let PETER DH take us out:

  • Sean, You are not a Christian. Quit bothering people with anti-social behavior. This is bizarre.

There you have it, the elect-of-the-elect — able to sit in for God and read the heart of man.


APPENDIX


Todd (BTW, a rejection of TULIP is not a rejection of the 5-SOLAS. Just to be clear… it is in fact freeing faith [by faith alone] from deterministic principles. Piper says he literally cried for three days after realizing the implication of this idea. Sproul says it is a dreadful doctrine and was brough kicking into its paradigm. Calvin himself says “The decree is dreadful indeed, I confess.” – as a reminder, the GOSPEL is Good News)

This is a better explanation. God created us to respond to His calling – through nature [natural revelation], and special revelation [the Gospel call from Scripture, preachers, reading it, hearing it, etc.].

  • How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Romans 10:14)

The story [not mine] of a person climbing an infinite rope to salvation, after tiring and saying “I cannot go on any longer” he is told to “let go and trust Jesus.” In reformed and Calvinistic presuppositions, even letting go is a work towards salvation. It is as if a guy in shark infested waters, almost drowning with said sharks nipping at his heels is thrown a life preserver that happens to catch him perfectly and he is drug to a boat. That person would never say “look how I saved myself.”

So salvation is 100% a work of God, but we are created to respond. TULIP says we cannot even do that. That makes God’s freedom/sovereignty a slave to gnosis as introduced [church history] by Augustine, a 10-year treasurer and member of Manny’s branch of Gnosticism. The Manichaeans represent the Persian branch of Gnosticism, and they taught both determinism and total depravity. However, their determinism was based upon dualistic mythology. (Hans Jonas, The Gnostic Religion [Beacon Press, 1958], 227.)

✂️ John Calvin admits that his theology was first clearly seen in Augustine. How did Augustine arrive at his views on election and predestination, which were not consistent with the churches teaching for the first 300 years? It should be noted that Augustine was himself a Gnostic Manichaean for nearly a decade before converting to Catholicism. Calvin wrote, “Augustine is so wholly with me, that if I wished to write a confession of my faith, I could do so with all fullness and satisfaction to myself out of his writings.” John Calvin, “A Treatise on the Eternal Predestination of God.”

✂️ Loraine Boettner, writes: “It may occasion some surprise to discover that the doctrine of Predestination was not made a matter of special study until near the end of the fourth century. The earlier church fathers placed chief emphasis on good works such as faith, repentance, almsgiving, prayers, submission to baptism, etc., as the basis of salvation. They of course taught that salvation was through Christ; yet they assumed that man had full power to accept or reject the Gospel. Some of their writings contain passages in which the sovereignty of God is recognized; yet along side of those are others which teach the absolute freedom of the human will. Since they could not reconcile the two they would have denied the doctrine of Predestination and perhaps also that of God’s absolute Foreknowledge. They taught a kind of synergism in which there was a co-operation between grace and free will. It was hard for man to give up the idea that he could work out his own salvation. But at last, as a result of a long, slow process, he came to the great truth that salvation is a sovereign gift which has been bestowed irrespective of merit; that it was fixed in eternity; and that God is the author in all of its stages. This cardinal truth of Christianity was first clearly seen by Augustine, the great Spirit-filled theologian of the West. In his doctrines of sin and grace, he went far beyond the earlier theologians, taught an unconditional election of grace, and restricted the purposes of redemption to the definite circle of the elect.”

I [as do all non-Calvinist Christians] believe in predestination, but not unto salvation. Once saved by the living message of the word that can cut between soul and body, we look forward to the predestined/fulfilled promise of our Savior: “Not only that, but we ourselves who have the Spirit [born again already] as the firstfruits—we also groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for adoption, the redemption of our bodies.” (Romans 8 ) “In him you also were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed. The Holy Spirit is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.” (Ephesians 1:13). Think of all the analogies of Paul and a race:

1 Corinthians 9:24-27:

The Apostle Paul uses the metaphor of a race to emphasize the need for self-discipline and purpose in the Christian life. He writes, “Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way as to take the prize. Everyone who competes in the games trains with strict discipline. They do it for a crown that is perishable, but we do it for a crown that is imperishable. Therefore, I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight like I am beating the air. No, I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.”

Hebrews 12:1-2:

The author of Hebrews encourages believers to persevere in their spiritual race by looking to Jesus as the ultimate example. “Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with endurance the race set out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.”

Philippians 3:12-14:

Paul expresses his personal commitment to pressing on toward the goal of knowing Christ fully. “Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been perfected, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize of God’s heavenly calling in Christ Jesus.”

All races have a finish line, an end goal. That is what is predestined. Believers “wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies” (Romans 8:23). The full revelation of the believer’s adoption is freedom from the corruption present in the world. Being a member of God’s family includes the ultimate privilege of being like him (1 John 3:2) and being conformed to the glorious body of Christ (Philippians 3:21). This is part of the promised inheritance for all God’s children (Romans 8:16-17; Ephesians 1:13).

Calvinism’s Tyrannical Bent | Dave Hunt (PLUS: Closet Calvinists?)

This post is going to be a bit long, as if that is abnormal. (I am including an entire chapter from WHAT LOVE IS THIS? as you proceed… like I said, long.) For the record, I am not an Arminian, their view of prevenient grace is too Calvinistic for me. I added a few graphics to drive these excellent points home that Jerry Walls made in his larger presentation.

“Perhaps Christ died for you.”

“Maybe God so loved you.”

“Christ shed His blood for you, perhaps.”

“Salvation has been provided for you, maybe.”

“Possibly God commendeth His love toward you.”

“Hopefully He’s the propitiation for your sins.”

“There is a possibility that Christ died as your Substitute.”

“I bring you good news, maybe.”

“It’s possible that Christ died for you. If you get saved then we know that He did die for you, but if you continue to reject Him then He did not die for you.”

“Christ died for you only if you believe that Christ died for you (thus proving you are elect), but if you do not believe this and if you continue in your unbelief until the day you die, then Christ did not die for you.”

Here is Dave Hunt discussing the issue in a larger lecture: Why Baptist’s would import Calvinism into the pulpit and put up with it is the theme of the topic.

Here is chapter 5 from Hunt’s book

5

Irresistibly Imposed “Christianity”

Arguably, one of Satan’s cleverest and most effective strategies was to delude the Emperor Constantine with a false conversion. Accounts differ, but whether this came about through a vision or a dream as recounted by Eusebius and Lactantius,1 Constantine saw a “cross” in the sky and heard a “voice” proclaiming (by some accounts the words were inscribed on the cross), “In this sign thou shalt conquer.” In the prior year the god Apollo had also promised him victory.

Constantine’s edicts of toleration gave every man “a right to choose his religion according to the dictates of his own conscience and honest conviction, without compulsion and interference from the government.” 2 Schaff views Constantine’s conversion as a wonderful advance for Christianity: “The church ascends the throne of the Caesars under the banner of the cross, and gives new vigor and lustre to the hoary empire of Rome. 3 In fact, that “conversion” began the corruption of the church and its marriage to the world. 4

How could a true follower of the Christ whose kingdom is not of this world and whose servants do not wage war proceed to wage war in His name, and under the banner of His cross to conquer with the sword? Of course, the Crusaders did the same, slaughtering both Muslims and Jews to retake the “holy land” under Pope Urban II’s pledge (matching Muhammad’s and the Qur’an’s promise to Muslims) of full forgiveness of sins for those who died in this holy war (Muslim jihad). But it was all very Augustinian. The City of God had to be defended!

From Constantine To Augustine

As Durant and other historians have pointed out, Constantine never renounced his loyalty to the pagan gods. He abolished neither the Altar of Victory in the Senate nor the Vestal Virgins who tended the sacred fire of the goddess Vesta. The Sun-god, not Christ, continued to be honored on the imperial coins. In spite of the “cross” (actually the cross of the god Mithras) on his shields and military banners, Constantine had a medallion created honoring the Sun for the “liberation” of Rome; and when he prescribed a day of rest it was again in the name of the Sun-god (“the day celebrated by the veneration of the Sun” 5 ) and not the Son of God. 6 Durant reminds us that throughout his “Christian” life Constantine used pagan as well as Christian rites and continued to rely upon “pagan magic formulas to protect crops and heal disease.”7

That Constantine murdered those who might have had a claim to his throne, including his son Crispus, a nephew and brother-in-law, is further evidence that his “conversion” was, as many historians agree, a clever political maneuver to unite the empire. Historian Philip Hughes, himself a Catholic priest, reminds us, “in his manners he [Constantine] remained, to the end, very much the Pagan of his early life. His furious tempers, the cruelty which, once aroused, spared not the lives even of his wife and son, are … an unpleasing witness to the imperfection of his conversion.” 8

It was not long after the new tolerance that Constantine found himself faced with a problem he had never anticipated: division within the Christian church to which he had given freedom. As we noted in the last chapter, it came to a head in North Africa with the Donatists, who, concerned for purity of the faith, separated from the Catholic churches, rejected their ordinances and insisted upon rebaptizing clergy who had repented after having denied the faith during the persecutions which arose when the Emperor Diocletian demanded that he be worshiped as a god. 9 After years of futile efforts to reestablish unity through discussion, pleadings, councils and decrees, Constantine finally resorted to force. Frend puts it well:

In the spring of 317 he [Constantine] followed up his decision by publishing a “most severe” edict against the Donatists, confiscating their property and exiling their leaders. Within four years, the universal freedom of conscience proclaimed at Milan had been abrogated, and the state had become a persecutor once more, only this time in favor of Christian orthodoxy ….

[The Donatists] neither understood nor cared about Constantine’s conversion. For them it was a case of the Devil insisting that “Christ was a lover of unity” …. In their view, the fundamental hostility of the state toward the church had not been altered. 10

In his own day and way, Augustine followed Constantine’s lead in his treatment of the Donatists, who were still a thorn in the side of the Roman Church. “While Augustine and the Catholics emphasized the unity of the Church, the Donatists insisted upon the purity of the Church and rebaptized all those who came to them from the Catholics – considering the Catholics corrupt.”11 Constantine had been “relentless [as would Augustine and his disciple Calvin be] in his pursuit of `heretics’ [forbidding] those outside of the Catholic church to assemble … and confiscated their property … the very things Christians had endured themselves were now being practiced in the name of Christianity.” 12

As a good Catholic enjoying the blessing of the Emperor and believing in the state church Constantine had established, Augustine persecuted and even sanctioned the killing of the Donatists and other schismatics, as we have already seen. Gibbon tells us that the severe measures against the Donatists “obtained the warmest approbation of St. Augustine [and thereby] great numbers of the Donatists were reconciled to [forced back into] the Catholic Church.” 13 Of Augustine it has been well said that “the very greatness of his name has been the means of perpetuating the grossest errors which he himself propagated. More than anyone else, Augustine has encouraged the pernicious doctrine of salvation through the sacraments of an organized earthly Church, which brought with it priestcraft with all the evil and miseries that has entailed down through the centuries.” 14

From Augustine To Calvin

There is no question that John Calvin had a great zeal for God and His Word. As we have already seen, however, there was a serious defect in his understanding of true Christianity. In many ways which colored his perspective until his death, he still viewed the church of Christ through Roman Catholic eyes. One of those ways was his acceptance of the church as Constantine had molded it and Augustine had cemented it: a partner of the state, with the state enforcing orthodoxy (as the state church defined it) upon all its citizens. Based upon this misunderstanding, Calvin applied his legal training and natural brilliance to the development of a system of Christianity based upon an extreme view of God’s sovereignty which by the sheer force of its logic would compel kings and all mankind to conform all affairs to righteousness. Indeed, in partnership with the church, kings and other civil rulers would enforce Calvinistic Christianity.

Calvin has impossibly been called both an amillennialist and postmillenialist. Of those who believed in a thousand-year reign of Christ upon earth, Calvin said their “fiction is too puerile to need or to deserve refutation.” 15 As far as Calvin was concerned, Christ’s kingdom began with His advent upon earth and had been in process ever since. Rejecting the literal future reign of Christ upon the earth through His Second Coming to establish his earthly kingdom upon David’s throne in Jerusalem, Calvin felt obliged to establish the kingdom by his own efforts in Christ’s absence.

The Bible makes it clear that one must be “born again” even to “see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3) and that “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 15:50). Ignoring this biblical truth and following Augustine’s error, Calvin determined (along with Guillaume Farel) to establish a beachhead for the kingdom of God on earth in Geneva, Switzerland. His first attempt there ended with his expulsion from that city. Boettner acknowledges, “Due to an attempt of Calvin and Farel to enforce a too severe system of discipline in Geneva, it became necessary for them to leave the city temporarily.” 16

Three years later, however, facing Catholic opposition from within and the threat of armed intervention by Roman Catholics from without, Geneva’s city council decided that they needed Calvin’s strong measures and invited him back. This time he succeeded in imposing his religion upon Geneva’s citizens with an iron hand. His first act was to hand the city council his Ecclesiastical Ordinances, which were adopted November 20, 1561. Stefan Zweig tells us:

One of the most momentous experiments of all time began when this lean and harsh man entered the Cornavian Gate [of Geneva]. A State [the walled citystate of Geneva] was to be converted into a rigid mechanism; innumerable souls, people with countless feelings and thoughts, were to be compacted into an all-embracing and unique system. This was the first attempt made in Europe to impose a uniform subordination upon an entire populace.

With systematic thoroughness, Calvin set to work for the realization of his plan to convert Geneva into the first Kingdom of God on earth. It was to be a community without corruption, disorder, vice or sin; it was to be the New Jerusalem, a centre from which the salvation of the world would radiate … the whole of his life was devoted to the service of this one idea. 17

Tyranny in Geneva

Perhaps Calvin thought he was God’s instrument to force Irresistible Grace (a key doctrine in Calvinism) upon the citizens of Geneva, Switzerland, even upon those who proved their unworthiness by resisting to the death. He unquestionably did his best to be irresistible in imposing “righteousness,” but what he imposed and the manner in which he imposed it was far from grace and the teachings and example of Christ.

Many of those who profess a “Reformed” faith today, especially those known as Reconstructionists such as the late Rousas J. Rushdoony, Gary North, Jay Grimstead and others (including organizations such as the Coalition on Revival), take Calvin’s Geneva as their model and thus hope to Christianize the United States and then the world. Many Christian activists of looser attachment to Calvin hope in their own way, through protest marches and the organizing of large enough voting blocks, to force an ungodly American citizenry into godly living. No one ever worked so hard at attempting to do this and for so long a time as Calvin. Durant reports:

To regulate lay conduct a system of domiciliary visits was established and questioned the occupants on all phases of their lives …. The allowable color and quantity of clothing, and the number of dishes permissible at a meal, were specified by law. Jewelry and lace were frowned upon. A woman was jailed for arranging her hair to an immoral height ….

Censorship of the press was taken over from Catholic and secular precedents and enlarged: books of immoral tendency were banned …. To speak disrespectfully of Calvin or the clergy was a crime. A first violation of these ordinances was punished with a reprimand, further violation with fines, persistent violation with imprisonment or banishment. Fornication was to be punished with exile or drowning; adultery, blasphemy, or idolatry, with death . . . a child was beheaded for striking its parents. In the years 1558-59 there were 414 prosecutions for moral offenses; between 1542 and 1564 there were seventy-six banishments and fifty-eight executions; the total population of Geneva was then about 20,000.18

Certainly, much of Calvin’s unusual zeal could not have come from the Holy Spirit’s guidance but rather from his powerful personality and extreme view of God’s sovereignty that denied all power of choice to man. Thus “grace” had to be irresistibly imposed. This was evident in the unbiblical manner in which he attempted to inflict his understanding of godliness upon the citizens of Geneva. In contrast to the humility, mercy, love, compassion and longsuffering of Christ, whom he loved and tried to serve, Calvin exerted authority much like the papacy which he now despised. Ironically, in spite of opposing the tyranny of the papacy, Calvin wielded the same unbiblical authoritarianism in attempting to enforce godliness upon ungodly people. Moreover, he criticized other Protestant leaders for not doing the same:

Seeing that the defenders of the Papacy are so bitter and bold in behalf of their superstitions, that in their atrocious fury they shed the blood of the innocent, it should shame Christian magistrates that in the protection of certain truth, they are entirely destitute of spirit. 19

Calvin’s defenders turn a blind eye to the facts when they attempt to exonerate him by blaming events in Geneva on the civil authorities. In the face of so much evidence to the contrary, Boettner even insists that “Calvin was the first of the Reformers to demand complete separation between Church and State.” 20 In fact, Calvin not only established ecclesiastical law but he codified the civil legislation. 21 He held the civil authorities responsible to “foster and maintain the external worship of God, to defend sound doctrine and the condition of the church” 22 and to see that “no idolatry, no blasphemy against God’s name, no calumnies against his truth, nor other offenses to religion break out and be disseminated among the people [but] to prevent the true religion from being with impunity openly violated and polluted by public blasphemy.” 23

Calvin used the civil arm to impose his peculiar doctrines upon the citizens of Geneva and to enforce them. Zweig, who pored over the official records of the City Council for Calvin’s day, tells us, “There is hardly a day, in the records of the settings of the Town Council, in which we do not find the remark: `Better consult Master Calvin about this.’ 24 Za Pike reminds us that Calvin was given a “consultant’s chair” in every meeting of the city authorities and “when he was sick the authorities would come to his house for their sessions.” 25 Rather than diminishing with time, Calvin’s power only grew. John McNeil, a Calvinist, admits that “in Calvin’s latter years, and under his influence, the laws of Geneva became more detailed and more stringent.” 26

Don’t Cross Dr. Calvin!

With dictatorial control over the populace (“he ruled as few sovereigns have done” 27), Calvin imposed his brand of Christianity upon the citizenry with floggings, imprisonments, banishments and burnings at the stake. Calvin has been called “the Protestant Pope” and “the Genevese dictator” who “would tolerate in Geneva the opinions of only one person, his own.” 28 Concerning the adoption in Geneva of a confession of faith that was made mandatory for all citizens, the historian Philip Schaff comments:

It was a glaring inconsistency that those who had just shaken off the yoke of popery as an intolerable burden, should subject their conscience and intellect to a human creed; in other words, substitute for the old Roman popery a modern Protestant popery.” 29

Durant says that “Calvin held power as the head of this consistory; from 1541 till his death in 1564, his voice was the most influential in Geneva.” 30 Vance reminds us that

Calvin was involved in every conceivable aspect of city life: safety regulations to protect children, laws against recruiting mercenaries, new inventions, the introduction of cloth manufacturing, and even dentistry. He was consulted not only on all important state affairs, but on the supervision of the markets and assistance for the poor. 31

Most of these were laudable efforts, but matters of faith were legislated as well. A confession of faith drawn up by Calvin was made mandatory for all citizens. It was a crime for anyone to disagree with this Protestant pope. Durant comments:

All the claims of the popes for the supremacy of the church over the state were renewed by Calvin for his church …. [Calvin] was as thorough as any pope in rejecting individualism of belief; this greatest legislator of Protestantism completely repudiated that principle of private judgment with which the new religion had begun …. In Genevathose who could not accept it would have to seek other habitats. Persistent absence from Protestant [Calvinist] services, or continued refusal to take the Eucharist was a punishable offense.

Heresy again became [under Calvin as under Augustine]treason to the state, and was to be punished with deathin one year, on the advice of the Consistory, fourteen alleged witches were sent to the stake on the charge that they had persuaded Satan to afflict Geneva with plague. 32

Calvin was again following in the footsteps of Augustine, who had enforced “unity through common participation in the Sacraments . . . .33 A medical doctor named Jerome Bolsec dared to disagree with Calvin’s doctrine of predestination. He was arrested for saying that “those who posit an eternal decree in God by which he has ordained some to life and the rest to death make of Him a tyrant, and in fact an idol, as the pagans made of Jupiter.” 34 Bolsec was arrested and banished from Geneva with the warning that if he ever returned he would be flogged. 35 John Trolliet, a city notary, criticized Calvin’s view of predestination for “making God the author of sin.” 36 In fact, the charge was true, as Calvin’s own writings clearly state. The court decreed that “thenceforward no one should dare to speak against this book [Institutes] and its doctrine.” 37 So much for the freedom of conscience which had been promised would replace the popes’ intolerable oppression!

Calvin’s power was so great that it was tantamount to treason against the state to oppose him. A citizen named Jacques Gruet was arrested on suspicion of having placed a placard on Calvin’s pulpit which read in part, “Gross hypocrite … ! After people have suffered long, they avenge themselves …. Take care that you are not served like M. Verle [who had been killed] . . . .38

Gruet was tortured twice daily in a manner similar to which Rome, rightly condemned by the Reformers for doing so, tortured the victims of her inquisitions who were accused of daring to disagree with her dogmas. The use of torture for extracting “confessions” was approved by Calvin. 39 After thirty days of severe suffering, Gruet finally confessed-whether truthfully, or in desperation to end the torture, no one knows. On July 16, 1547, “half dead, he was tied to a stake, his feet were nailed to it. and his head was cut off.” 40

Good Intentions Gone Astray

No one has ever been as successful as John Calvin at totalitarian imposition of “godliness” upon a whole society. And therefore no one has proved as clearly as he that coercion cannot succeed because it can never change the hearts of men. Calvin’s theology as laid out in his Institutes denied that unregenerate man could choose to believe and obey God. Apparently he was ignorant of the commonsense fact that genuine choice is essential if man is to love and obey God or show love and real compassion to his fellows. By his determined efforts to make Geneva’s citizens obey, Calvin disproved his own theories of Unconditional Election and Irresistible Grace. What he did prove, seemingly, by years of totalitarian and surely ungodly force, was the first of Calvinism’s Five Points, Total Depravity. Try as he might, there were many whom he simply could not persuade to live as he decreed, no matter how severe the penalty for failing to do so. He did succeed in creating many hypocrites who outwardly conformed to the law so long as the authorities were looking, but in their hearts longed for and practiced, when possible, the same old sins of the past.

Yes, there were reports from visitors that “cursing and swearing, unchastity, sacrilege, adultery, and impure living” such as were found elsewhere were absent from Geneva. 41 John Knox, of course, was enthusiastic. He called Geneva “the most perfect school of Christ that ever was in the earth since the days of the Apostles.” 42 A visiting Lutheran minister, who thought Calvin’s coercion was commendable, wrote in 1610, “When I was in Geneva I observed something great which I shall remember and desire as long as I live.” He praised the “weekly investigations into the conduct, and even the smallest transgressions, of the citizens” and concluded, “If it were not for the difference of religion, I would have been chained to Geneva forever.” 43 Difference of religion? Yes, Calvinism was not Lutheranism, although both persecuted the Anabaptists. Protestantism involved several rival factions to say nothing of millions of true Christians who had never given allegiance to Rome and thus had not come out of her as “Protestants.” These believers had been martyred by Roman Catholics at the instigations of various popes for a thousand years before Luther and Calvin were born. Thus today’s representation of Calvinism as “Reformation theology” that supposedly revived true Christianity is grossly inaccurate. Calvinists have, in fact, hijacked the Reformation.

Admirers of John Calvin cite favorable stories as proof of the godly influence he and his theories exerted in changing a godless society into one that honored God. His methods, however, far from Christlike, could not be justified by any results. Nor could Calvin’s means, as we have already noted, be justified by the fact that torture, imprisonment and execution had been employed by Luther and the popes and other Roman Catholic clergy to force their religious views upon those under their power. A true follower of Christ is not to be conformed to this world but in his behavior is to follow Christ’s example.

Calvin’s followers boast that he was the greatest of exegetes and followed Scripture meticulously both in formulating his theology and in guiding his life. Supposedly, Calvin “was willing to break sharply with tradition where it was contrary to the Word of God.” 44 At the same time, he is defended with the excuse that he was only conforming to the traditions long established by Rome which began with Constantine. Scott says, “In the early years of the Reformation, censorship of manners and morals remained a settled, accepted part of existing, ancient police regulations not only in Geneva, but in all Europe.” 45 This is true. Such curbs discouraged rebellious attempts to leave one’s “class,” etc. But that was not Christianity as taught and exemplified by Christ and His apostles.

There is no way to defend Calvin’s conduct from Scripture. Yes, he was loving and caring toward those who agreed with him. Yes, he expended himself and shortened his life through visiting the sick, caring for the flock and preaching continually. But in his treatment of those who disagreed with him he was anything but a Christian.

The Hopelessness Of Imposed “Godliness”

Sadly, upon looking a bit more closely we find that in spite of threats and torture, Calvin’s Geneva was not as righteous a city as the selected optimistic stories seem to indicate. The surviving records of the Council of Geneva unveil a city more similar to the rest of the world than Calvin’s admirers would like to admit. These documents reveal “a high percentage of illegitimate children, abandoned infants, forced marriages, and sentences of death.” 46 The stepdaughter and son-in-law of Calvin were among the many condemned for adultery. 47 Calvin had done his best, but at his death he felt that he had failed. Certainly he had not been able to produce among sinners, by the irresistible grace he sought to impose upon them, the ideal society – Augustine’s City of God – which he had envisioned when he wrote Institutes.

Some critics have falsely accused Calvinists of teaching that totally depraved man is incapable of responding to God. That is not exactly their position. They believe that the unsaved can and do respond to God but only in unbelief, rebellion and opposition. White explains: “Unregenerate men who are enemies of God most assuredly respond to God: in a universally negative fashion.” 48 That being the case, by his own theory, Calvin’s efforts at Geneva were doomed before they began! Speaking for all Calvinists, R.C. Sproul explains that according to the “Reformed view of predestination before a person can choose Christ … he must be born again” 49 by a sovereign act of God. How could Calvin be sure that God had done this work in the hearts of all in Geneva? If God had not predestined every citizen of Geneva to salvation, then Calvin was wrong in trying to force them into a Christian mold. Yet coercion even by force was an integral part of the system as practiced by Calvin himself and his immediate successors.

Do Calvinists today approve of such conduct? It’s doubtful. Then is it not probable that the Calvinism which produced such tyranny was also wrong in other respects?

How many of the “elect” were there in Geneva? As Jay Adams points out, no one, not even Calvin, could know. Calvinism has no explanation for how the elect could have been identified with certainty among the hypocrites who acted as though they were among the elect by behaving themselves, but did so only out of fear of the consequences. No matter how hard Calvin tried, if God had not elected every citizen in Geneva to salvation (and He apparently had not), then evil would still persist – though not as blatantly as in other cities of that day.

One wonders why Calvin, while insisting upon the doctrine of Total Depravity, didn’t realize the hopelessness of trying to impose godliness upon the totally depraved citizens of Geneva. One wonders also, considering Calvin’s abysmal record of failure, why today’s Reconstructionists who hold to the same dogma nevertheless believe they will be able to impose righteous living upon entire nations – or why evangelicals continue to praise Calvin, the oppressor of Geneva.

Servetus: The Arch Heretic

Born Miguel Serveto in Villanova in 1511, the man known to the world as Michael Servetus “discovered the pulmonary circulation of the blood – the passage of the blood from the right chamber of the heart along the pulmonary artery to and through the lungs, its purification there by aeration, and its return via the pulmonary vein to the left chamber of the heart.” He was in some ways “a bit more insane than the average of his time,” announcing the end of the world in which “the Archangel Michael would lead a holy war against both the papal and Genevese Antichrists.” 50

There is no question that he was a rank heretic whose ravings about Christ reflected a combination of Islam and Judaism, both of which intrigued him. He was, however, right about some things: that God does not predestine souls to hell and that God is love. His otherwise outrageous ideas might have passed unnoticed had he not published them and attempted to force them upon Calvin and his fellow ministers in Geneva with aggressive, contemptuous and blasphemous railings. That Servetus titled one of his published works The Restitution of Christianity could only be taken as an intentional personal affront by the author of the Institutes of the Christian Religion.

Servetus’s persistence is seen in the fact that he wrote at least thirty letters to Calvin, an attention which must have irritated the recipient greatly. On February 13, 1546, Calvin wrote to Farel, “Servetus has just sent me a long volume of his ravings. If I consent he will come here, but I will not give my word, for should he come, if my authority is of any avail, I will not suffer him to get out alive.” 51 Servetus made the mistake of passing through Geneva seven years later on his way to Naples and was recognized when he attended church (possibly out of fear of arrest for nonattendance) by someone who saw through his disguise and notified Calvin, who in turn ordered his arrest.

The Torture And Burning Of Servetus

Early in the trial, which lasted two months, Calvin wrote to Farel, “I hope that sentence of death will be passed upon him.” 52 To understand Calvin, we need to consider that if the God one believes in predestines billions of the “totally depraved” to a burning hell (all of whom He could rescue), then to burn at the stake an obviously totally depraved heretic would seem quite mild and easily justifiable. That logic, however, seems somehow to escape many of today’s evangelical Christians who admire the man and call themselves Calvinists.

The indictment, drawn up by Calvin the lawyer, contained thirty-eight charges (including rejection both of the Trinity and infant baptism) supported by quotations from Servetus’s writings. Calvin personally appeared in court as the accuser and as “chief witness for the prosecution.” 53 Calvin’s reports of the trial matched Servetus’s railings with such un-Christian epithets as “the dirty dog wiped his snout the perfidious scamp soils each page with impious ravings,” etc. 54 The Council consulted the other churches of Protestant Switzerland, and six weeks later their reply was received: Servetus should be condemned but not executed. Nevertheless, under Calvin’s leadership, He was sentenced to death on two counts of heresy: Unitarianism and rejection of infant baptism. Durant writes:

He asked to be beheaded rather than burned; Calvin was inclined to support this plea, but the aged Farel reproved him for such tolerance; and the Council voted that Servetus should be burned alive.

The sentence was carried out the next morning, October 17, 1553…. On the way [to the burning] Farel importuned Servetus to earn divine mercy by confessing the crime of heresy; according to Farel the condemned man replied, “I am not guilty, I have not merited death”; and he besought God to pardon his accusers. He was fastened to a stake by iron chains, and his last book was bound to his side. When the flames reached his face he shrieked with agony. After half an hour of burning he died. 55

The Failure Of Attempted Exonerations

Many attempts have been made by his modern followers to exonerate Calvin for the unconscionably cruel death of Michael Servetus. It is said that Calvin visited him in prison and pleaded with him to recant. Calvin’s willingness for Servetus to be beheaded rather than burned at the stake was not necessarily motivated by kindness, however, but was an attempt to transfer the responsibility from himself to the civil authority. Beheading was the penalty for civil crimes; burning at the stake was for heresy. The charges, however, were clearly theological rather than civil and brought by Calvin himself.

There is no question that the civil authority only acted at the behest of the church. According to the laws of Geneva, Servetus, as a traveler passing through, not a citizen and not being guilty of any crime within the city, should have been expelled from the city, not executed. It was only his heresy which doomed him – and only because Calvin pressed the charges. Calvin did exactly what his view of God required in keeping with what he had written to Farel seven years before. Here again, over Calvin’s shoulder, we see the long shadow of Augustine. To justify his actions, Calvin borrowed the same perverted interpretation of Luke 14:23 which Augustine had used. Frend said, “Seldom have gospel words been given so unexpected a meaning.” 56 Farrar writes:

To him [AugustineI are due above all the bitter spirit of theological hatred and persecution. His writings became the Bible of the Inquisition. His name was adduced – and could there be a more terrible Nemesis on his errors? – to justify the murder of Servetus. 57

There was wide acclaim from Catholics and Protestants alike for the burning of Servetus. The Inquisition in Vienne burned him in effigy. Melanchthon wrote Calvin a letter in which he called the burning “a pious and memorable example to all posterity” and gave “thanks to the Son of God” for the just “punishment of this blasphemous man.” Others, however, disagreed; and Calvin became the target of criticism.

Calvin’s Self-Justifications

Some critics argued that burning Servetus would only encourage the Roman Catholics of France to do the same to the Huguenots (70,000 would be slaughtered in one night in 1572). Stung by such opposition, in February 1554, Calvin published a broadside aimed at his critics: Defensio orthodoxae fidei de sacra Trinitate contra prodigiosos errores Michaelis Serveti. He argued that all who oppose God’s truth are worse than murderers because murder merely kills the body whereas heresy damns the soul for eternity (was that worse than predestination by God to eternal damnation?) and that God had explicitly instructed Christians to kill heretics and even to smite with the sword any city that abandoned the true faith:

Whoever shall maintain that wrong is done to heretics and blasphemers in punishing them [with death] makes himself an accomplice in their crime … it is God who speaks, and it is clear what law He would have kept in the Church even to the end of the world … so that we spare not kin nor blood of any, and forget all humanity when the matter is to combat for His glory. 58

Historian R. Tudor Jones declares that this tract, which Calvin wrote in defense of the burning of Michael Servetus, “is Calvin at his most chilling … as frightening in its way as Luther’s tract against the rebellious peasants.” 59 Eight years later Calvin was still defending himself against criticism and still advocating the burning of heretics. In a 1561 letter to the Marquis de Poet, high chamberlain to the King of Navarre, Calvin advises sternly:

… do not fail to rid the country of those zealous scoundrels who stir up the people to revolt against us. Such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard. 60

A year later (just two years before his own death), Calvin again justifies Servetus’s death, while at the same time acknowledging that he was responsible: “And what crime was it of mine if our Council at my exhortation . . . took vengeance upon his execrable blasphemies?” (Emphasis added.) 61 Much further documentation could be presented to expose the partisan bias of Calvinists who persist in offering one excuse after another for their hero. No wonder that even such a staunch Calvinist as William Cunningham writes:

There can be no doubt that Calvin beforehand, at the time, and after the event, explicitly approved and defended the putting him [Servetus] to death, and assumed the responsibility of the transaction. 62

Does The Christian Life Conform To Culture?

Today Calvin’s supporters complain, “No Christian leader has ever been so often condemned by so many. And the usual grounds for condemnation are the execution of Servetus and the doctrine of predestination.” 63 In fact, Servetus was only one of many such victims of Calvinism put into practice. Calvin is defended with the plea that such dealings were common practice and that he should be judged by the standard of his time. Do Calvin’s defenders really mean that “new creatures in Christ Jesus” are to rise no higher than the conventions of their culture and moment in history?

God’s sovereignty in controlling and causing everything that occurs is the very heart of Calvinism as conceived and taught by Calvin himself. Staunch Calvinist C. Gregg Singer declares that “the secret grandeur of Calvin’s theology lies in his grasp of the biblical teaching of the sovereignty of God.” 64 Could Calvin truly have believed that he was God’s instrument chosen from past eternity to coerce, torture and kill in forcing Geneva’s citizens into behavior that God had predestined for them? How else could he have justified his actions?

Calvin has been acclaimed as a godly example, one who based his theology and actions upon Scripture alone. We have seen that his actions were in fact unbiblical in the extreme but were consistent with his theology. Is not that fact sufficient reason to question Calvinism itself and to examine it carefully from Scripture? That the Pope and Luther joined in unholy alliances with civil rulers to imprison, flog, torture, and kill dissenters in the name of Christ is no excuse for Calvin having done so also. Do his modern defenders really believe that Calvin’s conduct conformed to Scripture? Is it not possible that some of his theology was just as unscriptural as the principles which drove his conduct? William Jones declares:

And with respect to Calvin, it is manifest, that the leading, and to me at least, the most hateful feature in all the multiform character of popery adhered to him through life – I mean the spirit of persecution. 65

Is not Christ alone the standard for His followers? And is He not always the same, unchanged by time or culture? How can the popes be condemned (and rightly so) for the evil they did under the banner of the Cross while excusing Calvin for doing much the same, though on a smaller scale? Calvin’s conduct day after day and year after year was the very antithesis of what it would have been had he truly been led of the Spirit of God. We cannot escape drawing that conclusion from God’s Word. The following are just two passages among many that condemn Calvin:

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. (James 3:17)

He that saith he abideth in him [Christ] ought himself also so to walk, even as he [Christ] walked. (I John 2:6)

One wonders why so many of today’s Christian leaders who call themselves Calvinists are so quick to laud a man who was so far removed from the biblical exemplar reflected above.

FOOTNOTES:

1 W.H.C. Frend, The Rise of Christianity (Fortress Press, 1984), 482.

2 Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church (Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1910; Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, reprint 1959),11:72-73.

3 Ibid.

4 FE Bruce, Lightin the West, Bk. III of The Spreading Flame (Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1956), 11-13.

5 Codex Theodosianus, (July 3, AX. 321), XVI:8.1.

6 Frend, op. cit., 484.

7 Will Durant, “Caesar and Christ,” Pt. III of The Story of Civilization (Simon and Schuster, 1950), 656.

8 Philip Hughes, A History of the Church (London, 1934), 1:198.

9 E.H. Broadbent, The Pilgrim Church (Gospel Folio Press, reprint 1999), 38-39.

10 Frend, op. cit., 492.

11 John Laurence Mosheim, An Ecclesiastical History, Ancient and Modern, trans. Archibald MacLaine (Applegate and Co., 1854), 101; and many other historians.

12 Laurence M. Vance, The Other Side of Calvinism (Vance Publications, Pensacola FL, rev. ed. 1999), 45.

13 Edward Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (Modern Library, n.d.), 2:233.

14 John W. Kennedy, The Torch of the Testimony (Christian Books Publishing House, 1963), 68.

15 John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, trans. Henry Beveridge (Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1998 ed.), III: xxv, 5

16 Loraine Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination (Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co., 1932), 408.

17 Stefan Zweig, Eden Paul and Cedar Paul, trans.,Erasmus: The Right to Heresy (Cassell and Company, 1936), 207-208; cited in Henry R. Pike, The Other Side of John Calvin (Head to Heart, n.d.), 21-22.

18 Durant, op. cit., 474.

19 George Park Fisher, The Reformation (Scribner, Armstrong and Co., 1873), 224.

20 Boettner, op. cit., 410.

21 Ronald S. Wallace, Calvin, Geneva, and the Reformation (Baker Book House, 1990), 29.

22 Calvin, op. cit., IV:xx,2.

23 Op. cit., IV:xx,3.

24 Zweig, op. cit., 217.

25 Pike, op. cit., 26.

26 John T. McNeil, The History and Character of Calvinism (Oxford University Press, 1966), 189.

27 Williston Walker, John Calvin: The Organizer of Reformed Protestantism (Schocken Books, 1969), 259.

28 Op. cit., 107.

29 Schaff, op. cit., 8:357.

30 Durant, op. cit., VI:473.

31 Vance, op. cit., 85.

32  Durant, op. cit., 465.

33 Frend, op. cit., 669.

34 The Register of the Company of Pastors of Geneva in the Time of Calvin, trans. and ed. Philip E. Hughes (Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1966), 137-38; cited in Vance, op. cit., 84.

35 Schaff, op. cit., 8:618.

36 G.R. Potter and M. Greengrass, John Calvin (St. Martin’s Press, 1983), 92-93.

37 Register of Geneva, op. cit., cited in Vance, op. cit., 201.

38 Schaff, op. cit., 502.

39 Fisher, op. cit., 222.

40 J.M. Robertson, Short History of Freethought (London, 1914),1:443-44.

41 Schaff, op. cit., 644.

42 Bard Thompson, Humanists and Reformers: A History of the Renaissance and Reformation (Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1996), 501.

43 Schaff, op. cit., 519.

44 C. Gregg Singer, John Calvin: His Roots and Fruits (A Press, 1989), 19.

45 Otto Scott, The Great Christian Revolution (The Reformer Library, 1994), 46.

46 Charles Beard, The Reformation of the Sixteenth Century in Relation to Modern Thought and Knowledge (London, 1885), 353; also see Edwin Muir, John Knox (London, 1920), 108.

47 Preserved Smith, The Age of the Reformation (New York, 1920), 174.

48 James R. White, The Potter’s Freedom (Calvary Press Publishing, 2000), 98.

49 R.C. Sproul, Chosen by God (Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., 1986), 72.

50 Durant, op. cit., VIA81.

51 Roland P Bainton, Hunted Heretic: The Life of Michael Servetus (Boston: The Beacon Press, 1953), 144; cited in Durant, op. cit., VI:481. See also John Calvin, The Letters of John Calvin (The Banner of Truth Trust, 1980), 159.

52 John Calvin, dated August 20, 1553; quoted in Letters, op. cit.

53 Wallace, op. cit., 77.

54 Durant, op. cit., VIA83.

55 Op. cit., 484.

56 Frend, op. cit., 672.

57 Frederic W. Farrar, History of Interpretation (E.P Dutton and Co., 1886), 235-38.

58 J.W. Allen, History of Political Thought in the Sixteenth Century (London, 1951), 87.

59 R. Tudor Jones, The Great Reformation (Inter-Varsity Press, n.d.), 140.

60 John Calvin to the Marquis de Poet, in The Works of Voltaire (E.R. Dumont, 1901), 4:89; quoted in Vance, op. cit., 95, who gives two other sources for this quote.

61 Schaff, op. cit., 8:690-91.

62 William Cunningham, The Reformers and the Theology of the Reformation (The Banner of Truth Trust, 1967), 316-17.

63 Scott, op. cit., 100.

64 Singer, op. cit., 32.

65 William Jones, The History of the Christian Church (Church History Research and Archives, 5th ed. 1983), 2:238.

John Piper’s Theistic “Dust Particle” Determinism (Soto 101)

A definition from that fits Calvinism via the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy and the current understanding of reformed theologies …. “Reformed” theologies:

  • I hate using “Reformed” because many Reformers (like Philip Melanchthon and Balthasar Hubmaier as some examples) thought differently than the “Pipers,” MacArthur’s,” and “Calvins” of their time and today. So Calvinism is a better term: John MacArthur was a “Calvinist Baptist,” not a “Reformed Baptist.” Understand the difference with a distinction? — RPT

Foreknowledge and Free Will (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Fatalism is the thesis that human acts occur by necessity and hence are unfree. Theological fatalism is the thesis that infallible foreknowledge of a human act makes the act necessary and hence unfree. If there is a being who knows the entire future infallibly, then no human act is free.

Fatalism seems to be entailed by infallible foreknowledge by the following informal line of reasoning:

For any future act you will perform, if some being infallibly believed in the past that the act would occur, there is nothing you can do now about the fact that he believed what he believed since nobody has any control over past events; nor can you make him mistaken in his belief, given that he is infallible. Therefore, there is nothing you can do now about the fact that he believed in a way that cannot be mistaken that you would do what you will do. But if so, you cannot do otherwise than what he believed you would do. And if you cannot do otherwise, you will not perform the act freely.

The same argument can be applied to any infallibly foreknown act of any human being. If there is a being who infallibly knows everything that will happen in the future, no human being has any control over the future.

This theological fatalist argument creates a dilemma for anyone who thinks it important to maintain both (1) there is a deity who infallibly knows the entire future, and (2) human beings have free will in the strong sense usually called libertarian. But it has also fascinated many who have not shared either of these commitments, because taking the argument’s full measure requires rethinking some of the most fundamental questions in philosophy, especially ones concerning time, truth, and modality. Those philosophers who think there is a way to consistently maintain both (1) and (2) are called compatibilists about infallible foreknowledge and human free will. Compatibilists must either identify a false premise in the argument for theological fatalism or show that the conclusion does not follow from the premises. 

Another recent example that came across my desk (earbuds at work). Dr. Theodore Zachariades stating that God wills [causes, not just permits] a man to be unfaithful to his wife in his comment on becoming a Calvinist via Ephesians 1.

  • God works all things after the Council of His will. Even keeping those kings who want to commit adultery from committing so! And when He wants to, he orders those to commit adultery when he wants to! (Video)

Now that that is out of the way, on to the videos… I isolated the Piper quote from the video that follows it:

QUESTION: Has God predetermined every tiny detail in the universe, such as dust particles in the air? And then I should add here, including all our besetting sins.

PIPER RESPONDS: Yes, which means yes, every horrible thing and every sinful thing is ultimately governed by God and. That’s a problem, but the center of the solution to the problem is a choice. You have to make about the cross

(BTW, more on Piper can be found in this excellent journal article title (PDF), “I Believe In Divine Sovereignty,” by Thomas H. McCall)

Here are some of the comments on the original SOTERIOLOGY 101 video on their YouTube Channel [below]:

  • God determines every single thing even dust but you have to make the decision about the cross What????
  • So Calvinism teaches , “God commands you to obey, but has SECRETLY predestined you to DISOBEY, so He can burn you forever because you were a reprobate ‘before you were born, or had done anything either good or bad’.”
  • Piper who doesn’t believe in free will choice says “the solution to the problem is a CHOICE you have to make about a cross” 😂😂 how anyone can listen to this incoherent nonsense I’ll never know.
  • Piper: ” the center of the solution is a choice YOU have to make about the cross”? Does he mean I make a choice? Or God determines what choice I make??
  • If God is determining what man wants to do then also blinding and hardening doesn’t Jesus refute that reasoning when talking about how a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand? Matt. 12:25,26
  • Piper didn’t look like he wholeheartedly believed what he was saying.

Dr. Leighton Flowers, Director of Evangelism and Apologetics for Texas Baptists, confronts the Calvinist’s appeal to the Crucifixion as their proof that God predetermines all moral evil, specifically playing off John Piper’s use of Acts 4:27-28 as justification for his deterministic interpretation of the Bible.

Here is the descriptive story told at SOTO 101:

When we object to the concept of divine determinism (God’s sovereign work to bring about all things whatsoever that come to pass) and you appeal to the crucifixion as your proof that God brings about all moral evil, are you saying that God is sovereignly working so as to redeem the very sins He sovereignly worked to bring about? Is Calvary just about God cleaning up His own mess — redeeming His own determinations?

Appealing to God’s sovereign work to ensure the redemption of sin so as to prove that God sovereignly works to bring about all the sin that was redeemed is a self-defeating argument. It would be tantamount to arguing that because a police department set up a sting operation to catch a notorious drug dealer, that the police department is responsible for every single intention and action of all drug dealers at all times. Proof that the police department worked in secretive ways to hide their identities, use evil intentions, and work out the circumstances in such a way that the drug dealer would do what they wanted him to do (sell drugs) at that particular moment in time does not suggest that the police are in anyway responsible for all that drug dealer has done or ever will do. We celebrate and reward the actions of this police department because they are working to stop the drug activity, not because they are secretly causing all of it so as to stop some of it. Teaching that God brings about all sin based on how He brought about Calvary is like teaching that the police officer brings about every drug deal based on how he brought about one sting operation.

Yes, at times the scriptures do speak of God “hardening” men’s hearts (Ex. 7; Rm. 9), blinding them with a “spirit of stupor” (Rm. 11:8) and delaying their healing by use of parabolic language (Mk. 4:11-12, 34; Matt. 16:20), and He always does so for a redemptive good. But the reason such passages stand out so distinctly from the rest of scripture is because of their uniqueness. If God worked this way in every instance these texts would make no sense. After all, what is there for God to harden, provoke, or restrain if not the autonomous will of creatures?

If everything is under the meticulous control of God’s sovereign work what is left to permit and/or restrain except that which He is already controlling? Is God merely restraining something that He previously determined? Why blind eyes from seeing something the were “naturally” predetermined not to see? Why put a parabolic blind fold on a corpse-like dead sinner incapable of seeing spiritual truth? These are questions many Calvinists seem unwilling to entertain at any depth.

The Closet Calvinist | John MacArthur’s Stealth Calvinism

(I wish to caveat/note… I am not a fan of the “Faith on Fire” guy in the 1st video, but I clip his video here to make the point that MacArthur was more of a traditional Baptist back in the day regarding his soteriology, and even today he struggles with his compatibilism regarding choosing and determined.)

Just came across this video[s], and thought it worthwhile to combine them to make the point that this seems a bit like MacArthur tricked an entire congregation. I believe MacArthur has contributed a greatly to the faith… but his books and teachings that incorporate TULIP are far from okay… IMO.

See a previous post highlighting this struggle session Pastor John has:

See all my “Calvinism” posts via my 5-POINT “tag”

Is Dr. John MacArthur’s teaching on man’s responsibility in light of Divine Revelation consistent with the claims of Calvinism? Dr. Leighton Flowers explores this question by playing two sermon clips by Dr. MacArthur and contrasting them with the claims of Calvinistic doctrine.

Here is a shorter version of the below:

James White and Jeff Durbin’s Horrendous 5-Point View of God

James White and Jeff Durbin exemplify just how 5-point Calvinism can destroy a good apologetic. It allows for an easy refutation of a Mormon apologist to show the God of Christianity is an evil god.

This defining sovereignty as some “determinism” creates a god more in line with a Muslim view of god than a Judeo-Christian view. 5-Pointers admit infants are created for destruction in Calvinism:

  • “We may rest assured that God would never have suffered any infants to be slain except those who were already damned and predestined for eternal death.” — John Calvin

The same in ISLAM: Babies CAN Go To HELL In Islam | Not only that, but we are more moral than the god of Calvinism or Islam.

In other words, the god of Calvinism is, as Lewis aptly notes, this thinking “may thus turn Christianity into a form of devil-worship.” Yup:

Any consideration of the goodness of God at once threat­ens us with the following dilemma.

On the one hand, if God is wiser than we His judge­ment must differ from ours on many things, and not least on good and evil. What seems to us good may therefore not be good in His eyes, and what seems to us evil may not be evil.

On the other hand, if God’s moral judgement differs from ours so that our ‘black’ may be His ‘white’, we can mean nothing by calling Him good; for to say ‘God is good’, while asserting that His goodness is wholly other than ours, is really only to say ‘God is we know not what’. And an utterly unknown quality in God cannot give us moral grounds for loving or obeying Him. If He is not (in our sense) ‘good’ we shall obey, if at all, only through fear—and should be equally ready to obey an omnipotent Fiend. The doctrine of Total Depravity— when the consequence is drawn that, since we are totally depraved, our idea of good is worth simply nothing— may thus turn Christianity into a form of devil-worship.

The escape from this dilemma depends on observing what happens, in human relations, when the man of infe­rior moral standards enters the society of those who are better and wiser than he and gradually learns to accept their standards—a process which, as it happens, I can describe fairly accurately, since I have undergone it. When I came first to the University I was as nearly with­out a moral conscience as a boy could be. Some faint dis­taste for cruelty and for meanness about money was my utmost reach—of chastity, truthfulness, and self-sacrifice I thought as a baboon thinks of classical music. By the mercy of God I fell among a set of young men (none of them, by the way, Christians) who were sufficiently close to me in intellect and imagination to secure immediate intimacy, but who knew, and tried to obey, the moral law. Thus their judgement of good and evil was very different from mine. Now what happens in such a case is not in the least like being asked to treat as ‘white’ what was hitherto called black. The new moral judgements never enter the mind as mere reversals (though they do reverse them) of previous judgements but ‘as lords that are certainly expected’. You can have no doubt in which direction you are moving: they are more like good than the little shreds of good you already had, but are, in a sense, continuous with them. But the great test is that the recognition of the new standards is accompanied with the sense of shame and guilt: one is conscious of having blundered into soci­ety that one is unfit for. It is in the light of such experi­ences that we must consider the goodness of God. Beyond all doubt, His idea of ‘goodness’ differs from ours; but you need have no fear that, as you approach it, you will be asked simply to reverse your moral standards. When the relevant difference between the Divine ethics and your own appears to you, you will not, in fact, be in any doubt that the change demanded of you is in the direction you already call ‘better’. The Divine ‘goodness’ differs from ours, but it is not sheerly different: it differs from ours not as white from black but as a perfect circle from a child’s first attempt to draw a wheel. But when the child has learned to draw, it will know that the circle it then makes is what it was trying to make from the very beginning.

SEE MORE IN MY POST TITLED:

Challenges To Strict 5-Point Calvinism | Tozer/Winger/Geisler/Lewis

Children and Depravity – Two Shorts

(Left video) 5-minutes plus; (Right video) 15-minutes plus

(See more about who introduced such “determinism into the church in a previous post, HERE)

As I am studying this, I wonder if a few of the Reformers borrowed the fatalism of Allah. At any rate, you can watch James and Jeff (and other Calvinistic theologians/pastors, but not always stated as clearly) say that the god of the Bible authored sex trafficking and the Holocaust. Bravo to the Mormon in slapping these two down. Mormons are easy to discuss issues with… unless you posit a god thru the rose colored lenses of the Calvinistic systematic. [See my using lower case for “god” — the Calvinistic god is too small. Like the Mormon god… not the God of the Bible] BTW, these are all arguments a healthy view of a theistic God used against philosophical naturalism – atheism.

Observe How Calvinistic Determinism Undermines Christian Apologetics

Dr. Leighton Flowers interacts with a recent video where a young Mormon picks apart the Calvinistic determinism of James White and Jeff Durbin making their perspective seem completely irrational and untenable. Theistic determinism is an unnecessary burden that some Christians have adopted making it virtually impossible to rationally defend scriptural truths against the false teaching of groups like Mormons. Theology will drive your methodology and one’s apologetic suffers when they adopt a deterministic theology, as witnessed in this video. (Full Video Here)

John Calvin, for which the systematic is named, explains more ~ via an excerpt from The Potter’s Promise: A Biblical Defense of Traditional Soteriology:

If you do not already know what Calvinism is all about, I recommend that you study the teachings of Calvinists themselves and keep in mind that not all Calvinists are the same.[2] Learn from my mistake, you should always study the opposition’s viewpoint for yourself.

Back when I was a Calvinist, I had so saturated myself with Calvinistic preachers and authors that the only thing I knew of the opposing views was what they told me. Thus, I had been led to believe the only real alternative to Calvinism was this strange concept of God “looking through the corridors of time to elect those He foresees would choose Him.” Notable Calvinistic teachers almost always paint non-Calvinistic scholars as holding to this perspective. Once I realized I had been misled on this point, I was more open to consider other interpretations objectively. So, just as it is only fair to learn Calvinism from actual Calvinists, it is also only fair to learn Traditionalism from a Southern Baptist Traditionalist.[3]

With this in mind, here is a direct quote from John Calvin which most clearly reveals the Traditionalist’s major point of contention with our Calvinistic brethren:

“By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which He determined with Himself whatever He wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of those ends, we say that he has been predestined to life or death…[4] Some are predestined to salvation, others to damnation… Regarding the lost: it was His good pleasure to doom to destruction… Since the disposition of all things is in the hands of God and He can give life or death at His pleasure, He dispenses and ordains by His judgment that some, from their mother’s womb, are destined irrevocably to eternal death in order to glorify His name in their perdition… All are not created on equal terms, but some are predestined to eternal life, others to eternal damnation…”[5]

The very thought of a creator making human beings, with real conscious feelings and emotions, for the sole purpose of pouring out His everlasting wrath so as to manifest His glory leaves even Calvinists pondering.[6]

The “dreadfulness” of such a decree may accomplish some measure of terror filled “thankfulness” in the hearts of those who happen to be rescued from this unthinkable fate, but no one can objectively claim that they are not on some level troubled by such a doctrine.[7] If the Scripture clearly teaches us to adopt these doctrines and the emotional abhorrence that typically follows, then we certainly must submit ourselves to it. However, suppose that was not the intention of the biblical authors at all? Think of what damage such interpretations impose upon the church and the believer’s view of God if the “dreadfulness” of these doctrines are simply untrue.

[….]

John Calvin forthrightly reveals where his own systematic leads:

“A distinction has been invented between doing and permitting, because to many it seemed altogether inexplicable how Satan and all the wicked are so under the hand and authority of God, that He directs their malice to whatever end He pleases, and employs their iniquities to execute His judgments…

How foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be, not by His will but by His permission… It is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing, but the author of them… Who does not tremble at these judgments with which God works in the hearts of even the wicked whatever He will, rewarding them nonetheless according to desert? Again it is quite clear from the evidence of Scripture that God works in the hearts of men to incline their wills just as He will, whether to good for His mercy’s sake, or to evil according to their merits.”[32]  

Many modern day Calvinists would not go so far as to candidly admit what John Calvin does in the quote above. Yet, can the Calvinistic systematic avoid the necessity of this logical end? Their namesake does not think so.

FOOTNOTES:

[2] Examples of other points where Calvinists simply do not agree among themselves: (1) Atonement: Phil Johnson, President of Grace to You ministries, writes, “But second, don’t imagine that there is just one view for the Limited Atonement position and another view for the Unlimited Atonement position. As if there are two polar opposites here and they compete against each other. This is not really an either/or position even among Calvinists. And in fact, historically, the most intense debates about Limited Atonement have come over the past 400 years, they’ve all been intramural debates between Calvinists, among Calvinists… There are at least six possible Calvinists’ interpretations of it [Scripture]…” Phil Johnson, The Nature of the Atonement: Why and for Whom did Christ die? Quote taken from: http://www.bible-bb.com/files/MAC/SC03-1027.htm; [date accessed: 4/2/15] (2) God’s Love for All, see John MacArthur, Does God Love the World? (3) Lapsarian Controversy (4) God’s genuine desire for all to be saved (5) The “order salutis” (the temporal vs. logical order).

[3] Non-Calvinistic Southern Baptists have been using the term “Traditionalist” to describe the most commonly held Southern Baptist view of salvation taught by leaders over the last one hundred years or so. In 2012, a document was produced to better articulate the scholarly non-Calvinistic soteriology of Southern Baptists, whose primary author was Eric Hankins, and was entitled A Statement of the Traditional Southern Baptist Understanding of God’s Plan of Salvation. The word “traditional” was again used for the basic Baptist view of non-Calvinists. This term has never been meant to suggest that all Southern Baptists have been non-Calvinistic because it is clear there have been two clear streams of soteriology throughout Baptist history. […]

[4] John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, trans. Henry Beveridge (Grand Rapids: Christian Classics Ethereal Library, 2002), sec. 5, 1030–1031.

[5] Gilbert VanOrder, Jr. Calvinism’s Conflicts: An Examination of the Problems in Reformed Theology (Lulu Publishers, 2013), 99.

[6] John Calvin, pg. 124: “How it was ordained by the foreknowledge and decree of God what man’s future was without God being implicated as associate in the fault as the author or approver of transgression, is clearly a secret so much excelling the insight of the human mind, that I am not ashamed to confess ignorance…. I daily so meditate on these mysteries of his judgments that curiosity to know anything more does not attract me.”

[7] John Calvin himself admitted the dreadfulness of this teaching: “Again I ask: whence does it happen that Adam’s fall irremediably involved so many peoples, together with their infant offspring, in eternal death unless because it so pleased God? Here their tongues, otherwise so loquacious, must become mute. The decree is dreadful indeed, I confess. Yet no one can deny that God foreknew what end man was to have before he created him, and consequently foreknew because he so ordained by His decree.” Quote taken from: http://postbarthian.com/2014/05/31/john-calvin-confessed-double-prede-stination-horrible-dreadful-decree/; [date accessed: 3/25/15]

[….]

[32] John Calvin, The Eternal Predestination of God; 10:11, [emphasis added.]

4-more examples of this evil god:

THEODORE ZACHARIADES

CONSISTENT CALVINIST

JOHN PIPER

CALVINISM ON RAVI’S FALL

 

What Love Is This? Calvinism’s “Evil” Problem | Determinism

(𝕍𝕆𝕃𝕌𝕄𝔼 𝕎𝔸ℝℕ𝕀ℕ𝔾!) This is not Biblical. BTW.

I have argued against philosophical naturalism for decades because of deterministic values. How could the determinist know he is correct. Example:

“He thus acknowledged the need for any theory to allow that humans have genuine freedom to recognize the truth. He (again, correctly) saw that if all thought, belief, feeling, and choice are determined (i.e., forced on humans by outside conditions) then so is the determinists’ acceptance of the theory of determinism forced on them by those same conditions. In that case they could never claim to know their theory is true since the theory making that claim would be self-referentially incoherent. In other words, the theory requires that no belief is ever a free judgment made on the basis of experience or reason, but is always a compulsion over which the believer has no control.”

Roy A. Clouser, The Myth of Religious Neutrality: An Essay on the Hidden Role of Religious Belief in Theories (Notre Dame, IN: Notre Dame University Press, 2005), 174.

You could not argue that “evil” is really “evil.” Eastern philosophies run into the same problems as the atheist’s/evolutionist’s issue I just noted above. SEE:

The Logic of Reincarnation

The Calvinist runs into the same issue. And it is a distortion of Christianity (T.U.L.I.P.):

Ephesians 1:11 goes even further by declaring that God in Christ

“works all things according to the counsel of his will.” Here the Greek word for “works” is energeø, which indicates that God not merely carries all of the universe’s objects and events to their appointed ends but that he actually brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes—as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem—God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child: “The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil” (Prov. 16:4, NASB ).14 “When times are good, be happy; but when times are bad, consider: God has made the one as well as the other” (Eccl. 7:14, NIV).

John Piper and Justin Taylor, eds., Suffering and the Sovereignty of God (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Books, 2006), 42.

And God’s love is limited greatly.

  • When we say that God is Sovereign in the exercise of His love, we mean that He loves whom He chooses. God does not love everybody. — A.W. Pink

Dr. Flowers plays a recent teaching released by Dr. John Piper on Ephesians 1:11-14 in order to demonstrate the error of the Calvinistic interpretation.

Eph. 1:11 is one of the most used proof texts to support the Calvinistic doctrine of theistic determinism, the concept that God has sovereignly and unchangeably decreed whatsoever comes to pass, including every sinful inclination and action.

 

John MacArthur Contradicts Calvinism | Soteriology 101

And I have my own private opinion, that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is called Calvinism.  I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly.  It is a nickname to call it Calvinism.  Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else.

— Charles Spurgeon, Spurgeon’s Sermons, vol. I (Baker Books, reprinted 2007), 88-89.

Calvinism IS NOT the Gospel. A theological paradigm is not that.

In my apologetic dealings with atheists, I note that even the language a person uses in life (moral categories, laws of thought, meaning of life, etc.) is in distinction to their started worldview. In other words, the Judeo-Christian God/worldview is the only paradigm where this language coherently works. Similarly, our being drawn to God is described best in the view of a sovereign God sovereignly giving his creatures agency. Here we see this at work with John MacArthur.

Free Will and Human Responsibility

Calvinism’s doctrine of Unconditional Election posits that God’s choice is independent of human action, implying humans lack agency in their salvation. However, the Bible repeatedly emphasizes human responsibility in responding to God’s grace.

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” This verse clearly conditions eternal life on individual belief.

Acts 16:31: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.” This directive underscores the necessity of human choice in salvation.

God’s Desire for All to Be Saved

Calvinism asserts that God decrees some to salvation and others to reprobation. This is problematic when measured against verses that show God’s universal salvific will:

1 Timothy 2:4: “[God] desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

2 Peter 3:9: “[God is] not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”

Foreknowledge vs. Predestination

Calvinists often argue that God’s foreknowledge necessitates predestination, but the Bible presents foreknowledge as God’s knowing in advance who will choose Him, not causing them to believe:

Romans 8:29: “For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son.” The sequence suggests that predestination follows foreknowledge.

1 Peter 1:2: “elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father.” Election is grounded in foreknowledge, not arbitrary decree.

Universal Offer of Salvation

The New Testament teaches that the gospel is offered to all, not only to a predetermined group of elect individuals:

Matthew 11:28: “Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”

Revelation 22:17: “Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.”

God’s Justice and Impartiality

Calvinism’s concept of unconditional election raises questions about God’s justice and impartiality:

Acts 10:34-35: “God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.”

Ezekiel 18:23: “Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? and not that he should turn from his ways and live?”

The Role of Grace

While Calvinism emphasizes irresistible grace (that God’s grace cannot be resisted by the elect), Scripture illustrates that grace can be resisted:

Acts 7:51: “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit.”

Matthew 23:37: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem How often I wanted to gather your children together but you were not willing!”

The scriptural problems with Calvinism’s interpretation of salvation center on the denial of human agency and the misrepresentation of God’s character as impartial and loving. The biblical narrative consistently portrays salvation as a cooperative process: God initiates through grace, and humans respond through faith. This balance ensures that God’s sovereignty and human responsibility are harmonized, honoring the scriptural testimony that God foreknows who will choose Him, and based on this knowledge, He elects them for eternal life.

Dr. Flowers responds to another John Piper Podcast in which he answers the question of one who is struggling to keep his faith…

Women Pastors? Scripture Says “No Way José”

While this post is about mainly Beth Moore, it will be a natural critique of other women preacher like Joyce Meyer, Priscilla Shirer, and others. But Revelation…

… expands even further that when persons prophecy non-Biblical ideas or additions to the clear enumeration of God’s Word, they are anathema. We use this warning when dealing with various cults and movements, like: J-Dubs, Mormons, New Agers, Word Faith/name it and claim it, and the like.

I can speak to this somewhat as the Word Faith theology was the root of havoc my parent adhered to. In the case of my father, to his death. And I came to a conclusion years ago, this understanding is very legalistic:

An additional point. This type of thinking is VERY legalistic. You will often hear about some Baptists practicing strict legalism over behavior. However, in the “Health and Wealth Gospel,” often time you HAVE to show the evidence of tongues in order to to show that you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the Spirit in you. This is legalism that changes even Jesus’ promise to us (John 14:15-31).

In this set of verses He [the Holy Spirit] is called Truth v. 16-17):

  • And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.”

This is important because for all the evidences we give for the faith, we KNOW it to be true because of the inner witness of the Spirit. And “knowing” truth [Truth] is important when confronting a culture with God’s attributes that not only include love, but equally: justice, hatred of sin, and even judgement. Without truth [Truth], a Christian does not KNOW God, cannot express the Truth in love or in standing against evil. True evil.

It interferes with what Scripture is meant for as well:

  • All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for rebuking, for correcting, for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

What a daunting rejection of God’s grace and plan for His church/people. Pride comes before a fall, and this is hubris on steroids!

What does the Bible say about women pastors?
John F. MacArthur and Paul Washer

And not only are these women pastors adding to Scripture and it’s meaning, as will be elucidated below, others do as well. Here is a snippet from my eulogy to my father:

The charismatic and Pentecostal tradition has a lot to answer for in the proverbial “By-and-By.” Mind you, while I truly believe some of these people at my dad’s church are saved and are going to heaven, they are destroying lives of people around them. They just don’t see it.

Here I am adding a caveat.

If people follow the Word-Faith theology to its logical conclusion, then the person may not in fact be saved at all. My father rejected much of the following… I know because we argued this stuff for years. Some dangerous views that could lead some to eternal separation from their Creator are:

Listen to more actual audio of these cultists preaching a twisted faith, HERE, stuff like:

  • God the Father has a body;
  • Trinity not important;
  • Adam flew to the moon;
  • men become gods;
  • men are gods

I could go on but the point is made.

Just like the early movement in the Corinthian church that had a similar emotional outburst and rejected a healthy-well-balanced theology that Paul spoke to in 1 Corinthian 14:23. Thus, Paul would have rebuked gracefully and doctrinally my dad’s church.

BTW, the above was added to this post just this morning after the sermon from my church. This post, again is mainly focused on Beth Moore to add additional context to my previous posts, found here:

There will be some meaty videos below that will tend to be longer at times. I will also quote from some more theologically minded books on the topic that elucidate Scripture.

This is meant to embolden one with some Scripture and understanding as well as some resources for the serious layman. Also, it is updating my understanding of who Beth Moore has become since I last looked into her many years ago. She falsely follows the narrative of Christian nationalism), she has accepted the ideas of Critical Race Theory (CRT), and is self involved (a narcissist) as one of her past fans writes in an excellent thread. Not only have I in the past rejected her positions, after going thru her more recent issues and positions since that earlier time, I can more boldly say she is a false teacher and heretic. Many good links to critiques of her can be found HERE.

See my previous posts here and here; also Front Page’s articles here and here for more; PJ-Media’s post / post will help

See more video interviews HERE & HERE of Eric Metaxes

First up is Justin Peters, someone I have come to respect as a teacher due to my closeness to just how detrimental bad theology (Word of Faith) can be in one’s life.

Beth Moore has finally eschewed biblical complementarianism and come out of the egalitarian closet. In this program, I interview Susan Heck (who has every book in the New Testament memorized and several in the Old) about her concerns with Beth Moore. I also ask Susan about the egalitarian arguments of Priscilla, the women at the tomb, and Deborah.

The following is from Chapter two of a wonderful book authored by John Piper and Wayne Grudem: Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood: A Response to Evangelical Feminism (I PDF’ed Chapter 2 HERE):

(2) What do you mean (in question 1) by “unbiblical female leadership in the church”?

We are persuaded that the Bible teaches that only men should be pastors and elders. That is, men should bear primary responsibility for Christlike leader­ship and teaching in the church. So it is unbiblical, we believe, and therefore detrimental, for women to assume this role. (See question 13.)

(3) Where in the Bible do you get the idea that only men should be the pastors and elders of the church?

The most explicit texts relating directly to the leadership of men in the church are 1 Timothy 2:11-15; 1 Corinthians 14:34-36; 11:2-16. The chapters in this book on these texts will give the detailed exegetical support for why we believe these texts give abiding sanction to an eldership of spiritual men. Moreover, the biblical connection between family and church strongly suggests that the headship of the husband at home leads naturally to the primary leadership of spiritual men in the church. (See chapter 13.)

[….]

(16) Aren’t the arguments made to defend the exclusion of women from the pas­torate today parallel to the arguments Christians made to defend slavery in the nineteenth century?

See the beginning of our answer to this problem in question 15. The preserva­tion of marriage is not parallel with the preservation of slavery. The existence of slavery is not rooted in any creation ordinance, but the existence of marriage is. Paul’s regulations for how slaves and masters related to each other do not assume the goodness of the institution of slavery. Rather, seeds for slavery’s dissolution were sown in Philemon 16 (“no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother”), Ephesians 6:9 (“Masters . . . do not threaten [your slaves]”), Colossians 4:1 (“Masters, provide your slaves what is right and fair”), and 1 Timothy 6:1-2 (masters are “brothers”). Where these seeds of equality came to full flower, the very institution of slavery would no longer be slavery.

But Paul’s regulations for how husbands and wives relate to each other in marriage do assume the goodness of the institution of marriage-and not only its goodness but also its foundation in the will of the Creator from the beginning of time (Ephesians 5:31-32). Moreover, in locating the foundation of marriage in the will of God at creation, Paul does so in a way that shows that his regu­lations for marriage also flow from this order of creation. He quotes Genesis 2:24, “they will become one flesh,” and says, “I am talking about Christ and the church.” From this “mystery” he draws out the pattern of the relationship between the husband as head (on the analogy of Christ) and the wife as his body or flesh (on the analogy of the church) and derives the appropriateness of the husband’s leadership and the wife’s submission. Thus Paul’s regulations concerning marriage are just as rooted in the created order as is the institution itself. This is not true of slavery. Therefore, while it is true that some slave owners in the nineteenth century argued in ways parallel with our defense of distinct roles in marriage, the parallel was superficial and misguided.

Mary Stewart Van Leeuwen points out, from 1 Timothy 6:1-6, that, accord­ing to the nineteenth-century Christian supporters of slavery, “even though the institution of slavery did not go back to creation . . . the fact that Paul based its maintenance on a revelation from Jesus himself meant that anyone wishing to abolish slavery (or even improve the slaves’ working conditions) was defying timeless biblical norms for society.”3 The problem with this argument is that Paul does not use the teachings of Jesus to “maintain” the institution of slavery, but to regulate the behavior of Christian slaves and masters in an institution that already existed in part because of sin. What Jesus endorses is the kind of inner freedom and love that is willing to go the extra mile in service, even when the demand is unjust (Matthew 5:41). Therefore, it is wrong to say that the words of Jesus give a foundation for slavery in the same way that creation gives a foundation for marriage. Jesus does not give any foundation for slavery, but creation gives an unshakeable foundation for marriage and its complementary roles for husband and wife.

Finally, if those who ask this question are concerned to avoid the mistakes of Christians who defended slavery, we must remember the real possibility that it is not we but evangelical feminists today who resemble nineteenth century defenders of slavery in the most significant way: using arguments from the Bible to justify conformity to some very strong pressures in contemporary society (in favor of slavery then, and feminism now).

And this next part is from Norman Geisler’s Systematic Theology

The Gender of an Elder

All elders were males, for they needed to be “the husband” of one wife (1 Tim. 3:2). Elder was a position of authority, and women were not “to usurp authority over the man” (1 Tim. 2:12). The reasons given, which clarify that this is not merely cultural, are based here on the order of creation and elsewhere (1 Cor. 11:3) on the nature of the Godhead. However, women are not inferior in nature, redemptive status, or spiritual gifting; they differ only in function.

Women Are Equal to Men in Nature

If women were naturally unequal to men because of their God-appointed role as submissive to their head, then Christ would be naturally inferior to God, since He is submissive to the Father (1 Cor. 11:3; 15:28). For instance, Jesus said, “I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me” (John 5:30; cf. 8:28). Both women and men were created in God’s image (cf. Gen. 1:27).

Women Are Equal to Men in Redemptive Status

Neither are women inferior as to redemptive status; soteriologically (salvifically), “there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal. 3:28 niv).

Women Are Equal to Men in Spiritual Gifting

Nor are women inferior to men in the area of spiritual gifts, there being no sex indicators on the gifts. There were prophetesses in the New Testament (Acts 21:29); the woman Priscilla taught the man Apollos (Acts 18:26); and women prophesied in the church service, since Paul told them how to do it (1 Cor. 11:13).

Women Are Different in Function From Men

That women are different in function in no way makes them inferior; if anything, they have an unparalleled function—childbearing—which Paul singles out in 1 Timothy 2:15. Functions (or lack thereof) do not make one naturally inferior or superior to members of the opposite sex; they merely make one different. Everyone, male or female, functions best in his/her God-given role. For example, men are neither inferior because they cannot bear children nor superior

Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree:

Some more zeroed in issues… under the covering of a pastor, via Dr. Wayne Grudem:

DOES A PASTOR’S AUTHORITY
TRUMP SCRIPTURE?

Some evangelical feminists
say that women can teach if
they are “under the authority”
of the pastors or elders

Another liberal tendency among evangelical egalitarians is the claim that a woman may teach Scripture to men if she does so “under the authority of the pastor or elders.” I say this is indicative of a liberal ten­dency because on no other area of conduct would we be willing to say that someone can do what the Bible says not to do as long as the pastor and elders give their approval.

This position is found fairly often in evangelical churches. What makes this position different from others we have treated up to this point in the book is that many who take this view say they genuinely want to uphold male leadership in the church, and they say they are upholding male leadership when a woman teaches “under the authority of the elders” who are men (or of the pastor, who is a man).

On the other hand, this is not a commonly held view among the main egalitarian authors or those who support Christians for Biblical Equality, for example.[1] These writers do not think only men should be elders, so they surely don’t think that women need any approval from male elders to teach the Bible!

But this view comes up fairly often in phone calls or e-mails to the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood (CBMW) office, and I often hear it in personal conversations and discussions of church policies.

Is it really true that a woman is obeying the Bible if she preaches a sermon “under the authority of the pastor and elders”?

The question here is, what does the Bible say? It does not merely say, “Preserve some kind of male authority in the congregation.” It does not say, “A woman may not teach men unless she is under the author­ity of the elders.” Rather, it says, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man” (1 Tim. 2:12).

Can a pastor or the elders of a church give a woman permission to disobey this statement of Scripture? Certainly not! Can a woman do what the Bible says not to do and excuse it by saying, “I’m under the authority of the elders”? Would we say that the elders of a church could tell people “under their authority” that they have permission to disobey other passages of Scripture?

What would we think of someone who said, “I’m going to rob a bank today because I need money and my pastor has given me permission, and I’m under his authority”? Or of a person who said, “I’m committing adul­tery because I’m unhappy in my marriage and my elders have given me permission, so I’m still under the authority of my elders”? Or of someone who said, “I’m committing perjury because I don’t want to go to jail and my pastor has given me permission, and I’m under his authority”? We would dismiss those statements as ridiculous, but they highlight the gen­eral principle that no pastor or church elder or bishop or any other church officer has the authority to give people permission to disobey God’s Word.

Someone may answer, “But we are respecting the Bible’s general prin­ciple of male headship in the church.” But Paul did not say, “Respect the general principle of male headship in your church.” He said, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man” (1 Tim. 2:12). We do not have the right to change what the Bible says and then obey some new “general principle of the Bible” that we have made up.

Nor do we have the right to take a specific teaching of Scripture and abstract some general principle from it (such as a principle of “male headship”) and then say that principle gives us the right to disobey the specific commands of Scripture that fall under that principle. We are not free to abstract general principles from the Bible however we wish, and then invent opinions about how those principles will apply in our situ­ations. Such a procedure would allow people to evade any command of Scripture they were uncomfortable with. We would become a law unto ourselves, no longer subject to the authority of God’s Word.

We could try this same procedure with some other passages. Would we think it right to say that the Bible teaches that men should pray “with­out anger or quarreling, unless they quarrel under the authority of the elders” (see 1 Tim. 2:8)? Or that women should adorn themselves “with modesty and self-control, unless the elders give them permission to dress immodestly” (see 1 Tim. 2:9)? Or would we say that those who are “rich in this present age” should “be generous and ready to share, unless the elders give them permission to be stingy and miserly” (see 1 Tim. 6:17­19)? But if we would not add “unless the elders give permission to do otherwise under their authority” to any of the other commands in Scripture, neither should we add that evasion to 1 Timothy 2:12.

If a woman says, “I will teach the Bible to men only when I am under the authority of the elders,” she has become no different from men who teach the Bible. No man in any church should teach the Bible pub­licly unless he also is under the authority of the elders (or pastor, or other church officers) in that church. The general principle is that anyone who does Bible teaching in a church should be subject to the established gov­erning authority in that church, whether it is a board of elders, a board of deacons, a church governing council, or the church board. Both men and women alike are subject to that requirement. Therefore, upon reflec­tion, it turns out that this “under the authority of the elders” position essentially says there is no difference between what men can do and what women can do in teaching the Bible to men.

Do we really think that is what Paul meant? Do we really think that Paul did not mean to say anything that applied only to women when he said, “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man” (1 Tim. 2:12)?

Allowing a woman to disobey 1 Timothy 2:12 by saying she is doing so “under the authority of the elders” is setting a dangerous precedent by saying, in effect, that church leaders can give people permission to disobey Scripture. It is thus another step on the path toward liberalism.


[1] In fact, egalitarian author J. Lee Grady rejects this idea. He writes, in the context of talking about women who have public preaching ministries: “And in many cases, leaders have inno­cently twisted various Bible verses to suggest that a woman’s public ministry can be valid only if she is properly ‘covered’ by a male who is present” (J. Lee Grady, Ten Lies the Church Tells Women [Lake Mary, Fla.: Creation House, 2000], 89).

Beth Moore’s Wild Unbiblical Teachings: Michelle Lesley Interview

See Michelle Leslie’s articles on Beth HERE

10 Questions are asked in the RENEW.ORG article worth considering:

  1. Why are Women’s Bible Studies filled with False Teachers?
  2. Why did God create from scratch—not based on culture—male leadership roles in the Old Testament, in the ministry of Jesus, and in the New Testament church?
  3. Why make giftedness and not the created order the starting point?
  4. Why reject the priest/rabbi/synagogue role as a historical background for key texts in 1 Corinthians 11:3-5, 1 Corinthians 14:29-34, and 1 Timothy 2:11-13?
  5. How do Jesus and the Church mutually submit to each other?
  6. Does it bother you that you must redefine the understanding of so many passages and key words?
  7. What can you teach from Scripture on what makes a man distinct from a woman?
  8. How will you use Scripture as a basis for appointing female elders?
  9. Why do churches not grounded in secular Western egalitarianism tend to read these passages so differently?
  10. How will you stop the drift to gay, lesbian, and transgender affirmation and other forms of progressivism in your church?

A great read BTW!

Why are Women’s Bible Studies filled with False Teachers?

Why do so many women’s Bible studies have false word of faith teachings, and me-centered emotionalism from Beth Moore, Joyce Meyer, Priscilla Shirer, and similar false teachers? Noted women’s Bible study author, Susan Heck, discusses why women need sound theological teaching and the importance of memorizing Scripture. Susan describes how she memorized the entire New Testament, and she’s now in the process of memorizing the Old Testament.

GOT QUESTIONS ends with these two paragraphs to a wonderful read.

Many women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, evangelism, and helping/serving. Much of the ministry of the local church depends on women. Women in the church are not restricted from public praying or prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5), only from having spiritual teaching authority over men. The Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22–23), and to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18–20Acts 1:81 Peter 3:15).

God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This does not imply men are better teachers or that women are inferior or less intelligent. It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are also to set an example in their lives, but in a different way (1 Peter 3:1-6). Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3–5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This bars women from serving as pastors to men. This does not make women less important, by any means; rather, it gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God’s design.

I will end with CHRISTIAN PIRATE MEDIA dealing with some prophecy by Beth Moore that is essentially adding to Scripture.

Beth Moore’s “Outpouring ‘Prophecy'” | Pirate Christian Radio Flashback