I love to go to Starbucks, grab a cup of coffee, and read/study my favorite topics in book form. Once and a while I will bump into people well known in pop-culture. Michael Berryman was recently one of those people. Of course, he is best known to me from an 80’s classic, Weird Science. But he has been in many others, as his bio shows, another being a favorite of mine, The One Who Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest. Mistaking him for an officer that served in the SCV that looks — believe it or not — very similar, my mistake was quickly corrected and small chit-chat began. Michael is an amiable enough guy and I had planned on letting him go on his way after he very nicely allowed a photo to be taken. However, during this small talk that was very general, Michael mentioned news, and then interjected into his own point that one shouldn’t watch Fox News because it is not news, far from fair and balanced, he said.
Well, this is where the brakes on the rest of my plans happened. Wanting to engage the level of this man’s reasoning towards truth vs. merely spewing bumper-sticker thinking as fact [ad hoc] became the goal for the rest of my scheduled reading time. (This led to a 40-minute conversation.) After Michael drove deeper into the political abyss of commentary common from the Left, I slowed the conversation down a bit by mentioning he had touched on many topics in just a few sentences. …(con’t)…
(A tactic seemingly used by those who wish to just be “right.” They obfuscate the issue by interjecting many topics and points in the hope — apparently — of showing the person listening they have a handle on this topic. Granted, many do not realize they are doing this… they have just never had anyone around them that disagree with them. They live in sound rooms surrounded by only those who think like them.)
Before continuing with the encounter, due to the length of the post I feel the nee to update it with a “contents” section as well as headings. This will make it easier for the “topical” reader to find a response to a challenge he or she is interested in. So the following contents are based on responding to comments made during conversation:
Enjoy the conversation, I did.
1. Fox News Is Biased
…(from con’t)… I mentioned to Michael that “just a short while back he mentioned something that needed revisiting to exemplify a correlation between what many people say is true in general conversation compared to what is actually the case.” So bringing him back to the Fox News statement I asked if three reasons could be offered as to why maybe his statement might be wrong.
The first reason I gave was that “during the 2010 election Fox News had NPR, The Baltimore Sun, The Times, U.S. News and World Report, and Politico, all said [in some form or fashion] the coverage by Fox was the best in breadth (most in-depth guests) and most fair in their political stance (equal number of liberal/conservative guests, interviews and opinions). Whereas they all bemoaned MSNBC for their far-left commentary and CNN for their lack of depth.”
The second reason given was that “according to a Pew Research poll, and separately a university poll, found that between the party splits of Democrat, Republican, and Independents, there is about an equal mix of viewers of Fox. Whereas — in Contradistinction to MSNBC and CNN — there is a much larger demographic of Democrats versus Republicans that watch those channels.” Pointing out that more Democrats watch Fox than watch CNN or MSNBC (and that stat may even be combined[?]) segwayed nicely to exemplify that “if someone is saying that Fox news is not News or unfair, they may be out of the mainstream… since the stats show a much more balanced viewing audience.” This fair mix of people from differing political views is what has made Fox (posted in March of this year) the most-watched news channel in total viewers for both Total Day and Primetime for the 110th straight month.
Before making my third reason known, Michael interjected and started to again make multiple points which included anecdotal stories which surely he thought would prove his position. But they were just non-sequitur stories from his past… emotionally laden. Interjecting politely I steered him back to the topic and to my third point, which was Fox’s reporting on the 2008 election. “Fox News offered a fair mix of positive/negative stories on Obama and McCain when they reported on the two candidates than MSNBC or CNN.” Continuing I mentioned “that George Mason University’s (during the conversation I merely mentioned “a university,” here I am including the actual studies or some referring links) non-partisan Center for Media and Public Affairs concurred as well as another media watch org, The Project for Excellence in Journalism.” Not letting up I pointed out that maybe, just maybe what he was saying did not fit with the facts. This is a hard thing to admit — pride gets in the way.
2. I Like Ron Paul
Then came more anecdotal tales, many of which were personal references to his meeting famous people or his mother meeting famous people. All stories that only he has access to, nothing offered by Michael could be taken and used by another party to make an informed decision from these facts that lay outside him and myself — like the information given in the Fox News discussion. He asked me if I liked Ron Paul. Reservedly I responded that Ron Paul had some positions I liked, others I did not. He responded to this by merely stating that he liked him. A short while later in his ramblings he intimated that he hated Ronald Reagan. Which brought us back to his previous statement about Ron Paul. “Mentioning that I hear a lot of people from the left say they like Ron Paul without actually knowing what Ron Paul stands for,” continuing, “Much like Reagan, Ron Paul would like to shut down many Federal Departments, like the Dept. of Education, of Agriculture, the EPA, and the like.” Granted, I already knew this is something Michael would not agree with, and he didn’t. My implicit point had been made, there was a disconnect between something said (in this case the liking of a particular candidate) and said facts easily known (in this case, many of Ron Paul’s positions). Of course the conversation steered towards drugs, most conversations about Ron Paul do. I mentioned I was for the legalization of marijuana if there were someway, much like with alcohol, for law enforcement to tell if someone is under the influence of the drug. But Ron Paul would legalize (or at the least stop Federal enforcement of) heroine, speed, and the like. Later in the conversation Michael challenged my libertarian side by asking derisively if I would want to get rid of the national parks. I said no, but I pointed out that Ron Paul would… another thing he wasn’t aware of in regards to Ron Paul.
3. Reagan Caused the Homeless Problem
Mentioning Reagan again as being one of the most evil men in his life time caused me to inquire why he thought this. He started to intimate why, but then stopped himself and asked if I knew what he was going to reference. I did. “Are you going to mention the insane asylums,” I said. Knowing this is a popular mantra of the Left in regards to Reagan which proved correct. He asked me what i thought of this situation to which I responded that the movement to release these “mentally ill” persons was not Reagan’s alone, that the Democratic Left was very much involved. Michael merely dismissed this position out of hand, almost laughing as he did. (An aside should be noted. The left thinks this event happened nation wide, however, this happened when Reagan was governor of California.) An interesting conversation on Snopes forums can help the reader, as well as myself, gain information so a well informed response to an emotional position. You can trust me when I say Michael was very animated in expressing his disgust of Reagan. Here are some of the conversations from the older Snopes forum:
Snopes started the conversation off:
Following are some thoughtful responses:
So we see that this issue, as encapsulated by the Left, is wrong. It is a straw-man, in other words, they define their proposition as a historical fact (wrongly), and then tear it down. The only problem is that they present an unhistorical case and feel like they are justified in their hatred for Reagan by making a fool out of themselves. The ACLU was the main catalyst behind fighting for the rights of these people to be free, even the freedom to live in alleyways and eat from trash cans. Anything but a conservative or Republican institution, they were one of the main thrusts behind both California and later a nationwide release of patients. They [the ACLU], have long held that involuntary institutionalization of an unwilling person, even if mentally or physically incapable, is the worst of two evils. Not to mention that many times since the 1970’s Democrats have controlled both houses and the governorship of California, the questions has been raised, why didn’t the Democrats re-institutionalize these people?
A question I suspect is entwined in the complexity of how these people were actually released, versus merely a politician waving his or her wand. in other words the Democrats hands were just as tied (actually more-so) as the Republicans hands because the genesis of the movement for patient rights was not political. Not to mention that this myth serves Democrats and Liberals well… they wouldn’t want to change this “silver bullet,” or what they wrongly presume is one.
4. Sarah Palin Kills…. Wolves
Before entering the odd conspiratorial and religious parts of the conversation, we should end the political aspect of this portion of the conversation with his hatred for Sarah Palin. The reason for this disdain, he said, is because he is an environmentalist and that “she shot 17 wolves.” Included in his reasoning was her policy on the matter of Alaska offering a bounty to cull the wolf population. His vitriol is very similar to this:
Again, Michael’s animated hatred was present when he talked of her, similar to when speaking of Reagan. Part of this is that the hunters were payed $150 bounty on the wolves. Partially true. For instance, this is implicitly referenced in a Slate article on the topic:
Take note also that the cost of helicopter hunting of wolves is very expensive, so this form of hunting (shooting from the chopper) was/is rare. Hunters typically drive in and-or hike to the hunting area. Some can afford to be helicoptered into and dropped off in an area. But the story of mass wolf shootings by helicopter is just a myth. Also note that I couldn’t find anywhere a number given for Sarah Palin hunting of wolves. In fact, if she did kill a wolf in a hunting trip, I cannot even find that. That being said, the Lefts opening up of Sarah Palin’s emails backfired in every account, even this wolf myth. The left like to say she “championed aerial hunting,” however, this is not the case. For instance, here is one email on the above topic from Sarah Palin… Stuff:
Again, the narrative received from Michael just did not stand up to the facts.
5. New World Order
Alright, let’s switch gears a bit and enter into Michael’s views on the New World Order (NWO) conspiracies, black helicopters (yes, he believes one was getting ready to come grab him, as you will see), and religion. In our previous conversation about reasons for disliking Ron Paul it was mentioned by myself that Ron Paul had some conspiratorial views, like the New World Order. He retorted that the NWO is a fact, and he knows a server at the Bilderbergers compound, therefore, he [Michael] knows the truth… end of story. Sharing with him a bit about my previously held beliefs and my affinity to such theories even going as far as involving myself with the John Birch Society in the mid to late 90’s. Continuing, I explained three “events” that caused me to question these beliefs and spurred me to really investigate these claims, references, and quotes so often used with these theories.
My eventual shift in thinking were spurred by an article in the New American article (the magazine of the John Birch Society) blaming the Oklahoma bombing on the U.S. Government; the failure of predictions made about Y2K from many I listened to; and listening to radio talk show host Michael Medved’s “Conspiracy Show” where for one day each month he takes calls only from those who believe in conspiracies. These three things caused me to compare and contrast the positions previously accepted as fact. After a couple of years of wrestling with position after position, I eventually gave up my thinking on the NWO and embraced true history.
6. Black Helicopters and FEMA Gulags
This talk led to Michael positing that gulags exist in America. How did he prove this to me? By an anecdotal story of course. He told me a story where he called some representatives/senators about why it is important to control the border. He says he talked to someone from Diane Feinstein’s office. After a fruitless conversation with someone from her office he said he ended the conversation with a retort that he didn’t mean, but that nonetheless caused a call from a local Sheriff to where he lived within minutes of ending his call with Diane Feinstein’s office. Being that this Sheriff was a fellow Freemason (more on this later), he told Michael to hold on after hearing his explanation. When this Sheriff got back on the line with him he said the pick up was called off. Michael said he inquired with his fellow Mason what he meant, to which he was told that a black helicopter was dispatched from Langley to come get him and take him to a gulag, but was now called off. Granted portions of this story may be true, like when the person from Feinstein’s office called him a racist for wanting to control the border, but I think he added much to it. This happens with many a person, they tell a story and twist the truth here and there, however, with some this form of embellishment becomes habitual. I could see that Michael lived a life unchecked by truth (John 8:32). That being said, he was merely offering unproved, personal information as an anecdote to jump into the larger point that gulags exist. He didn’t offer any information that anyone outside his head could take and use to make a choice with. It was all emotive.
The following topic I did not deal at the time, so I will here in the hoped Michael reads this at some point.
A lot of this thinking revolves around crazy conspiracy stories pushed by people like Alex Jones in regards to FEMA Camps/gulags, coffin liners, and black helicopters. Popular Mechanics (PM) has a great article debunking this conspiracy story. And the video to the right is Glenn Beck talking about the debunking PM gave this theory. Likewise, there is a good short video debunking the supposed coffins that are part of this theory as well. What interested me was that he was a Freemason. In fact, in the photo of him and I you can see a pin of the Masonic symbol just over my left shoulder (click to enlarge). At one point during our conspiracy discussion he rejected the claim that the Masons are part of any conspiracy for “world domination.” Mind you he was just telling me that the Bilderbergers, the Council of Foreign Relations, and the like are out for world domination. “What justification do you have to make this distinction,” I asked. He moved on to other subjects.
Freemasonry is said to be a modern evolution of the Illuminati, and so, would be an older extension of this conspiracy thesis. His rejection of one aspect of the same conspiracy theory and acceptance of another portion of it, then, must be based on emotional reasons: he is a member of one and not of the other.
We did talk about religion[s], which led to a sub-extension of the conspiracy portion of the discussion. I explained to him that Freemasonry is really a modern form of gnosticism, I intimated — not too well — this post on the matter, which I have wanted to import here to RPT — why not now, at least in part:
7. What “is” Freemasonry?
(Original Post) Below is a scan from page 567 of my copy of Morals and Dogma. What you have here is an example of Gnostic thinking on spirit-material dualism; Freemasons are merely modern day Gnostics. Roles are reversed in comparison to how historic Christianity has viewed them since its inception. I will explain, but first look at page 567 (click on it to enlarge):
So let’s get into the meat of the matter. Gnostic thinking is a combination of Judaism, Platonism, Zoroastrianism, and Christianity. (By-the-by, the below is much to do with a professor’s input I had, Dr. Wayne House.)
Judaism – early Gnostics followed the thinking of Marcian, and Marcian taught that the God of the Old Testament was a demiurge. A demiurge would be what we would typically call the “devil.” Since anything 100% spirit is “good,” anything material is “bad.” So the God of the Old Testament created the world, which is material, and so this God is the Gnostic’s mortal enemy (pun intended). So Judaic thought and Judaism’s God is what Gnostics are “fighting” against. This is Judaism’s contribution.
Platonism – plutonic thought is basically the codifying of Hindu thinking into Grecian thought. He taught that innate ideas (that is: existing in one from birth; inborn; native) were the ideas the mind beheld in the world of pure Forms before birth. This world, then, is but a shadow of reality… pure spirit. This is Platonic contribution to Gnostic thinking.
An aside here for clarity of thought. Platonic thinking shares a point in common with Gnostic thinking, so you could be a Platonist and not a Gnostic. You couldn’t be, however, a Gnostic without being a Platonist. This is important because many “scholars” get this concept mixed up when describing the points of contact between Gnostic thinking and Christianity. Okay, on we go.
Zoroastrianism – Zoroastic thought has contributed what is called ethical dualism. It has said that there is a battle between good and evil, light and dark. Its addition to this is that anything material in nature is evil, and anything spiritual is good.
Christianity – Christian theology provided a “vehicle” in which to express the above. It is then, the “vehicle of expression” for Gnostics. Jesus becomes the way in which they Gnostics explain the working of impersonal deity in human existence and the offering of salvation through secret knowledge, or, Gnosis. Gnosis means knowledge of spiritual matters; mystical knowledge.
Gnostic’s, then, only have a complete “system of thought” when they combine all four of these major aspects into their thinking. If their thinking were to lack any one of these, they would cease to be Gnostic. The combining of the major aspects of these four lines thought, then, make up the Gnostic “worldview.” What do Gnostics believe then? I will explain a bit more in this crude drawing taken during notes from a class at seminary. one should note as well that “Eon” should be spelled “Aeon.”:
8. “Religion” Defined
He did ask me to define “religion,” not being able to recall a decent definition then, I do so here:
Webster’s New World Dictionary defines religion as “a specific system of belief, worship, often involving a code of ethics.” Faith is defined as “unquestioning belief… complete trust or confidence… loyalty.”
Funk and Wagnalls Standard Desk Dictionary has this to say about religion, “The beliefs, attitudes, emotions, behavior, etc., constituting man’s relationship with the powers and principles of the universe.” On the matter of faith it says, “Confidence in or dependence on a person, statement, or thing as trustworthy… Belief without need of certain proof.”
Atheism, Taoism, and other non-god beliefs, like Buddhism, fit into this definition. I explained my relational position with God was more personal than the cut n’ paste definition.
9. Priests Molesting Kids
Of course during the conversation Michael brought up all the deaths associated with Catholicism, and the molestations associated with the Catholic church. I responded quite well in conversation on this topic. First let me speak to the portion we discussed on molestation/rape.
Using his logic, dentistry, counseling, teaching, and the like are evil. They drive the person to do such acts. The N.E.A. (National Teachers Association) and school district/union even ship the guilty party from district to district, much like the priest. Does that mean education is evil? He thought religion was evil with this example. Having dealt with this in the past — this would be a perfect place to re-post a response to this charge:
(From a cataloged discussion)
Two Buddhist monks and eight other men were arrested on Wednesday, accused of sexually abusing 11 children orphaned by the island’s 19-year civil war, an official said.
Investigations revealed that the children, aged between nine and 13, had been sexually abused over a period of time at an orphanage where the men worked, said Prof. Harendra de Silva, head of the National Child Protection Authority….
2) Washington County Sheriff’s Office Media Information reported the following:
Mr. Tripp was arrested for sexually abusing a former 15-year-old foster care child.
The investigation started when the Oregon Department of Human Services was contacted by a school counselor who learned that there may be sexual abuse involving a student and Mr. Tripp. DHS workers then contacted Sheriff’s Detectives who took over the investigation.
Detectives learned that Mr. Tripp has been a foster parent since 1995 and has had at least 90 children placed in his home during that time. Sheriff’s Detectives are concerned that there may be more victims who have not yet reported sexual contact involving Mr. Tripp….
3) A therapist who worked at Booker T. Washington Middle School in Baltimore was arrested in Catonsville and charged with molesting a 13-year-old boy, Baltimore County police said yesterday.
Robert J. Stoever, 54, of the 1500 block of Park Ave. was arrested Sunday night after a county police officer saw him and the boy in a car in a parking lot at Edmondson Avenue and Academy Road, said Cpl. Michael Hill, a police spokesman.
Stoever was charged with a second-degree sex offense and perverted practice, according to court documents. He was sent to the Baltimore County Detention Center, Hill said….
4) A Bronx dentist was arrested yesterday on charges that he twice raped a 16-year-old patient whom he had placed under anesthesia during an office visit on Thursday, police said.
The girl, a patient of the dentist for several years, was hired for a summer job as his receptionist on Thursday, and had an appointment with him for treatment that afternoon, said Lieut. Hazel Stewart, commander of the Bronx Special Victims Squad.
“She went in and she changed into a little uniform that he gave to her, and he gave her some files to work on,” the lieutenant said. “Then he said that it was time to take a look at her teeth.”
At that point, Lieutenant Stewart said, “he used some type of anesthesia on her and he allegedly raped her.”
The young woman told officers that she was never fully anesthetized, Lieutenant Stewart said, but that “the effects of the anesthesia were strong enough to render her helpless to such a degree that he was able to rape her again.”
These folks that commit these crimes are atheists, Christians, Buddhists (which are epistemologically speaking, atheists), and every other ideology and from every stripe of life and culture in the world. Thus, the argument is as strong as this:
There have been many cases of dentists molesting and raping children, therefore, dentists cannot take moral positions on secular society.
The conclusion just doesn’t follow the premise.
There have been many cases of priests molesting and raping children, therefore, the Pope (insert Catholic here) cannot take moral positions on secular society.
In the case of religious comparisons, you would have to isolate the founders and their lives in order to properly judge a belief, not the followers. I would engender the reader to consider well this quote by Robert Hume:
The nine founders among the eleven living religions in the world had characters which attracted many devoted followers during their own lifetime, and still larger numbers during the centuries of subsequent history. They were humble in certain respects, yet they were also confident of a great religious mission. Two of the nine, Mahavira and Buddha, were men so strong-minded and self-reliant that, according to the records, they displayed no need of any divine help, though they both taught the inexorable cosmic law of Karma. They are not reported as having possessed any consciousness of a supreme personal deity. Yet they have been strangely deified by their followers. Indeed, they themselves have been worshipped, even with multitudinous idols.
Also see: “Love”
10. What About the Crusades?
[See my new post on the Crusades]
Michael’s bad thinking just isn’t him, it is a large portion of society that base important positions on emotion (they want to believe it), on hearsay (hear it from somebody), or bias, or: all of the above! Michael is merely living out societal ignorance. I can’t blame him, but I was surprised at how many of these mantras and myths he could back into a few short sentences. The other issue we talked about was violence done in the name of the Church. I intimated that according to the World Book Encyclopedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica that the total historically known deaths from the Crusades (all 7), was about 40,000. It may have been horrible and wrong I told him, but the Christ doesn’t teach this. In contradistinction, when Nietzsche prophesied that the death of God would produce a bloody 20th century, he was right. Non-God movements in the 20th century alone killed over 166-million people. I continued the discussion using two books for examples: Demonic Males: Apes and the Origins of Human Violence, and, A Natural History of Rape: Biological Bases of Sexual Coercion. I contrasted religious views of violence and those of evolutionary standards. The Church had a reference point to return to, the non-religious person as well has a point to return to. I explained to Michael that Hitler in Mein Kampf explained this “point” well:
In fact, current day biologist, Richard Dawkins agrees:
“What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right? I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question.” (Stated during an interview with Larry Taunton, “Richard Dawkins: The Atheist Evangelist,” by Faith Magazine, Issue Number 18, December 2007)
If evolution is true in its natural philosophical sense, then the highest moral plain (if you can call it that) would be survival of the fittest. At some point in our evolutionary past it may have been necessary for the stronger male species to forcibly dominate the weaker female species in order for our “kind” to survive. Rape is said to not be a pathology but an evolutionary adaptation – a strategy for maximizing reproductive success (The Natural History of Rape, p.p., 71, 163; referenced on page 7 of my chapter on natural law and homosexuality.) At some point in our evolutionary future it may become again the only way for our species to survive (since without the theistic God rape is only currently taboo, socially speaking). This was the only time I became animated, and I did so knowingly to try and drive my point home, and the point is simple:
In other words, if one rejects Christianity for the violence it has committed against its principles, how much more should you reject non-faith for living up to its?
11. Was There a Reason for the Crusades?
Of course even this response doesn’t explain the reasoning behind why the Church went to battle to begin with. The Crusades were a mandatory action, and since the church was the only real organization in that day to see the threat and to sound the alarm bells, the net good caused by the Church’s actions — even if wrong decisions and actions took place during this conflict — is commendable. For instance, I critiqued geneticist Francis Collins position (in his book) on religion and evil for a college paper, which a portion of is below:
One can see that the narrative that Mr. Berryman was speaking from is even flawed from its foundation. The liberal thinks the “big, bad corporate church” went over and started slaughtering people minding their own business. Nope. So the net good that came out of those actions is why Michael is not forced to his knees five times a day. I bet you Mr. Berryman would be floored to realize that only 2,000 or so people were killed directly because of the Spanish Inquisition! This is not an anecdotal story, but referenced in one of the leading historians of Spain and the Inquisition’s book, The Spanish Inquisition: A Historical Revision.
We talked about other issues and I can respond to them as well, but these are the main topics I touched on with him and expanded a bit here for the reader to use as examples of some responses to the many straw man statements we often hear. If Michael contacts me after the “beating” he took above, this means he is a man’s man. Sometimes we have to swallow our pride and admit that maybe, just maybe, there is room to learn — and life offers opportunities in the people we meet to do so. Michael met one such opportunity. I would ask that if Michael read this that he consider reading my book. It answers some other issues he mentioned. For instance when I mentioned the Bible, he said “which Bible, there are many.” Or when I presented a few positive aspects of the Christian worldview verses the non-believers. All that can be found in my book: Worldviews: A Click Away from Binary Collisions (Religio-Political Apologetics) The whole encounter was congenial for the most part. We left on good terms and I would be more than happy to sit down with him and have a beer.
I was recently asked what I think about Ron Paul, and I realized that often I find myself in many-a-discussion about him. So I figured that I would post this larger commentary on him in order to simply reference it in the future rather than have many small discussion on Ron Paul. Before I continue however, I wish to state a few positive things about him to start.
I would love an administration to put him in charge of auditing the Federal Reserve… I think that would be one of the greatest things to happen to this bureaucracy called government. He knows the Constitution well, and the like. But I focus on my dislikes of him more than the likes, only because I deal with many people who do not really know Ron Paul enough to come to a conclusion negatively about him.
Firstly, the voter who would pull the lever for Ron Paul if given a chance is wide and varied… and I think this is the case for a multitude of reasons. Pot-heads like him because he is a Presidential candidate that wants to nix most laws against drugs. These people are not necessarily Libertarians (or even anarchists), and may want to increase the size and scope of government in the “cradle-to-grave” sense of social programs, but similar to some religious conservative’s position on single-issues (abortion for instance), they vote for Ron because in their mind’s eye this is the most important issue. That is, getting stoned without being arrested. These are typically Democrats or Green Party members in their voting habit when they do vote Party lines.
Obviously Libertarians (capital “L”) enjoy Ron Paul because he truly wishes to reduce the size of government to a level that most Ayn Rand style libertarians wish, as well as many conservatives. Where conservatives and capital “L” Libertarians differ is on drug laws, prostitution laws, and defense. For instance, Ron Paul often times talks about the Founder and their wanting to stop America from being embroiled in conflicts that didn’t involve the an immediate threat to our sovereignty. However, American history shows that the Founders embroiled our nation on many countries shores. I recommend the book that this quote comes from:
Many lower case “l” libertarians (like Eric Dondero over at Libertarian Republican [who worked for Ron Paul for near 15-years] and author/lawyer/and radio host ~ Larry Elder) still consider themselves libertarians (lower case), but want to effect policy by keeping the core of the Republican party true to the Constitutional Republic that was originally set up by its Founders. In other words, they realize they will never win in a third party situation — thus making their influence on politics null-and-void. The best way to change policy is to keep the Republican Party closer to their “classical liberal”, or “paleo-liberal” roots of small government — thus making their influence effectual. These people (like myself, like Reagan, like many conservatarians) want to get rid the Federal Government of at least eight departments, for instance: the Dept. of Agriculture, the Dept. of Education, and the like.
Many conservative Christians also enjoy Ron Paul because he is deeply involved in the conspiratorial view of history. This fits nicely into a portion of a Christian’s eschatology. From the Illuminati, to 9/11, to the New World Order (NWO), there seems to be an affinity to messages coming from Alex Jones and the Ron Paulers’ that believe there is a secret cabal running the world. What is interesting to me is that many Christians (which, as you will come to realize, I lump myself into) do not challenge their own positions on applying their eschatology to history. If we are to test our own faith against some standard, how much more peripheral aspects of it?
They [Christians] “anesthetize” themselves with religious positions they think are a) proven, as well as b) being above the normal verification principle – because they are “religious” in nature. This, believe it or not, is also why many stoners like him. I have met many an “anesthetized” person who believes the World Trade Towers were taken down by some governmental involvement and they feel some sort of affinity to Alex Jones and/or Ron Paul because of it. In fact, I would bet from personal experience that those who still believe that believed Bush was involved in the terror attacks on the Trade Towers from the original 35% of Democrats are primarily stoners (and those from the Republicans are primarily Christians who apply the NWO to Revelation).
They anesthetize themselves with mind numbing drugs that disorder critical thinking like many religious people do (most unwittingly). I KNOW, I WAS ONE OF THEM!
I think here we should break for those religiously minded to learn how to think a bit more critically about positions taken on history and conspiracies:
Reading about the Cold War and the meeting between Mao, Stalin, and Ho Chi Minh, is a great example of what I mention about this “secret cabal” keeping secret and unified what some blame them of keeping secret and unified on ~ it’s impossible. Even with this spreading of Communism what started out as unified effort became disjointed and fractured. Why? Man’s nature. I do not speak of a secular view of mankind that much like Rousseau believe we are good in our base nature, but a Biblical one.
Man’s proclivity to selfishness and opportunity will stop him from working well with his cohorts. You see this in every facet of life! Which is why the religious view of this NOW is self-deleting in my mind’s eye… the Christian gives more credence to man than God does.
I critique a conservative view of conspiracism in a post on the documentary, The Agenda: Grinding America Down. You see, I was once the biggest NWO believers, having over a hundred books on the topic and every documentary the American Opinion Bookstore (AOB) had on the subject. I would visit Ezola Fosters’ store (when she was closer to the AOB) and have short interactions here-and-there before the time she ran as VP with Pat Buchanan. I was a John Bircher for many years and my turning back to my faith after jail threw me headlong into the fun study of eschatology.
A great example of this is comments one can find all over the Net, every fact or discrepancy is explained by the theory:
- Alex Jones is being used by the elite. Why would Barbara Walters, a member of the CFR, have someone like Alex Jones on her show [the View]?
It explains nothing. Speaking from experience however, over time, I myself saw conspiracy EVERYWHERE. But a few things happened.
WHAT does this have to with Ron Paul — I am sure you are wondering.
Well, Ron Paul was a big supporter of the ideas fueling the John Birch Society. I know this because of a lecture I sat in on by Ron Paul and talking to friends close to his reelection people. I even had a short convo with him (face-to-face) about this New American issue about the CIA being involved in the Oklahoma bombing). He intimated he thought something was very fishy. Ron Paul is a believer in this evil cabal that causes these big events and catastrophes in history (WWI, WWII, Communism, capitalism, 9/11, and the like). For instance, here he is responding to a question on this topic:
New World Order – One World Government
On the Bilderbergers
So the question becomes: What do political/racist-cults, crazy liberal Cindy Sheehan, Marxist/pro Gaddafi Cynthia McKinney, and Ron Paul all have in common?
For those who don’t know, Alex Jones is an absolute nut. From UFO’s to mind-control, this guy covers it all. But he is best known for his view that there is a secret cabal of bankers and corporate bigwigs that control… well… everything. If there are facts that disprove his theory, those facts are merely planted. This “control of everything” means anything that disagrees with the conspiratorial position is itself a conspiracy.
See my Alex Jones section, HERE
Ron Paul regularly appears on his radio show for Prison Planet, even as recent as July of 2011 (the link works even though it is showing a strike through it). Even his “Daily Paul” site posts this song about being crazy like Alex Jones (the link works even though it is showing a strike through it). So besides aligning himself with the belief that Bush and others in government (and throughout history, the Illuminati) regularly attack our own interests, Ron Paul also works closely with those he says he stands against.
There use to be a video [now gone] of Alex Jones falsely asserting that Galileo was imprisoned for saying the earth is round. Everyone knew at the time of Galileo that the earth was round, nor was he imprisoned for this belief. My point here is that if he got this easily known historical fact wrong — how much more should you distrust his claims in regards to 9/11?
FOXNews talks about Ron Paul’s conspiracy views discussed after a debate in the 2008 nomination process:
Alex Jones interviews Cindy Sheehan during the DNC 2008
Remember, Cindy supports Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro. The question is, how can “Constitutionalists” (something Alex Jones says of himself and Ron Paul) support these views? Take note as well of the photo’s shown during this audio presentation… this is the type of thinking that are riding on Ron Paul’s coat tails. This movement will be the root-cause (if there ever were to be one) of anarchy and WWIII, not bankers and corporate heads. Marxists love Ron Paul, Alex Jones, and Cindy Sheehan. They are “Revolutionaries,” not General Electric and Citi Bank:
Cynthia McKinney’s Speech on Alex Jones “Prison Planet”
The following couple videos will show that another person who appears on Alex Jones’ radio show and in one of his documentaries ~ALONGSIDE RON PAUL~ her belief in our involvement with 9/11, Iraq war mantras, anti-Israel, and the like.
Cynthia McKinney’s Exit from Congress.
Her “security detail” are from the New Black Panthers, who are Marxist in their politics. They are what I like to term a political cult. Here is a short clip about her security detail getting into a tussle with “white folk,” otherwise known as “crackers.” She is a racist and surrounds herself with racists (shown later):
This example of Ron Paul’s intimate relationship in the past with the John Birch Society, there crazy evolved conspiracies beyond the sounding of the group, with Alex Jones, and doing documentaries about 9/11 with Cynthia McKinney exclude Ron Paul from my list as a serious candidate in any respect. The last portion of this post should not be see as “guilt by coincidence,” but, “guilt by proxy.” Guilt by proxy is a much more powerful connection that by chance. Another reason I dislike him is that whenever he looses a primary run he always asks his followers to vote Green Party, or Independent, rather than Republican… another hint he is not truly a Republican!
This comes a day after the second round of “debates” between the 2012 Republican Presidential contenders. Here are some reasons NOT to vote for Ron Paul.
- For more clear thinking like this from Michael Medved… I invite you to become a Medhead: https://www.medvedmedhead.com/
Take note that Cynthia is a Marxist and Green Party presidential nominee. The Green Party is where Ron Paul sends his fans after he looses a Republican Presidential run, and even did a “documentary” with her via crazy 9/11 nutters from Prison Planet. (One of the reasons I cannot stand Ron Paul.)
I take snippets across two hours of the radio programs:
This quote has shown up recently on some Face Book posts of high school acquaintances, so, I wanted to set the historical record straight all the while empathizing with the posters because I use to use this quote often when I was on this mindset:
Now, some here may know that i am not a huge Ron Paul fan personally. I know from hearing him in person as well as Ezola Foster at an event that he holds to the conspiratorial view of history. While I think he has backed off of his previous John Birch Society thinking (as did I, but to a larger extent), he is still liked by the “Alex Jones” sheople out there in the ether of the www. So here we can see Ron Paul gets inundated with this quote from his conspiracy followers quite a bit, so much so he had to put the breaks on it. We can see this because he titled this post, “Can we please stop propagating the fake Jefferson quote about ‘PRIVATE BANKS’?” In this post he states the following:
Later in the comments section, you find this in response to some of the thinking that took place after this post:
This is a blow to those who usually rail against the Fed. They do not often grasp the nuance in their position and how saying one thing often conflicts with the reality of a healthy position. Here is one example from a caller on this topic to Michael Medved:
People really do not think through these issues much any longer. I was in the same boat at one point in my life. I realized in my own life I didn’t do with this view of history the same way I dealt with other aspects of my worldview. For instance I have come to well informed conclusions on issues by comparing, contrasting, debating and watching experts debate the following:
- Creation and intelligent design vs. evolution and philosophical naturalism;
- Constitutional original intent vs. a “living” and “breathing” Constitution;
- Paleo-liberalism/conservatism vs. liberalism or progressivism;
- (Worldviews) theism vs. pantheism, atheism, and the like.
I never put my own view of history to the test. That is, the conspiratorial view of history (Bilderbergers, Trilateral Commission, CFR, Illuminati, the New World Order, etc) versus an accidental view of history. Listening to talk radio (Prager and Medved) gave me a healthy view of some historical events as well as references for me to follow as they often had on guests who were experts in these areas. Medved especially, every full moon he devotes three-hours of his show to conspiracy callers. Many of my previously held positions on historical events were challenged, and so I set out on a mission to prove or disprove some of these events I had merely accepted as fact. I followed many of these quotes and historical events often used and referenced by these conspiracy writers (the most well-known in Christian literature are Epperson and Kah). What I found was that many of the quotes had no historical basis — like the Jefferson quote above. Or they were facts that were twisted and misconstrued. This is Alex Jones favorite ploy:
There are those you can never reach, they are closed off and impervious to facts, and then, there are those (like I was) who will take any argument and test it to see if it is true… truth being the highest order of things. Truth rejects opinion and makes it secondary to the actual reality of things. Man likes to subvert facts to their will. This is all part of our fallen nature and this pride is what is daily broken — or should be — in a Christians life and walk. A worldview, therefore, that allows the individual a model to test a theory and stand outside of ones ego, as much as possible, is key. Which is why you have this conspiracy movement primarily built into the Left. I guess all I can do is continue to post on the topic and hope it reaches one person. I hope that one person can reach one as well, and so on.