I also had to start this out with Doc Flowers
This is merely a posting of the raw Calvin and my asking GROK to “laymanize it,” so-to-speak. Meant for my own use in the future and others who might find it helpful:
Grok, can you put into layman’s understanding this older John Calvin quote, so it fits better with American English, please?
Again I ask: whence does it happen that Adam’s fall irremediably involved so many peoples, together with their infant offspring, in eternal death unless because it so pleased God? Here their tongues, otherwise so loquacious, must become mute. The decree is dreadful indeed, I confess. (latin. “Decretum quidem horribile, fateor.”; french. “Je confesse que ce decret nous doit epouvanter.”) Yet no one can deny that God foreknew what end man was to have before he created him, and consequently foreknew because he so ordained by his decree. If anyone inveighs against God’s foreknowledge at this point, he stumbles rashly and heedlessly. What reason is there to accuse the Heavenly Judge because he was not ignorant of what was to happen? If there is any just or manifest complaint, it applies to predestination. And it ought not to seem absurd for me to say that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his descendants, but also meted it out in accordance with his own decision. For as it pertains to his wisdom to foreknow everything that is to happen, so it pertains to his might to rule and control everything by his hand. And Augustine also skillfully disposes of this question, as of others: “We most wholesomely confess what we most correctly believe, that the God and Lord of all things, who created all things exceedingly good [cf. Gen 1:31], and foreknew that evil things would rise out of good, and also knew that it pertained to his most omnipotent goodness to bring good out of evil things to be . . . , so ordained the life of angels and men that in it he might first of all show what free will could do, and then what the blessing of his grace and the verdict of his justice could do. (Augustine, On Rebuke and Grace X. 27)”.
John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion III.xxiii.7 (The Library of Christian Classics), trans. Ford Lewis Battles, Westminster John Knox Press (January 1, 1960), pg 955-956
PARAPHRASE ONE from GROK:
Here’s a straightforward, modern American English paraphrase of that passage from John Calvin’s Institutes (Book III, Chapter 23, Section 7), breaking it down into plain talk while staying true to what he was saying:
Calvin is wrestling with this tough question: Why did Adam’s sin drag so many people—including babies and everyone else—into eternal damnation with no way out? The only answer is: because that’s what God decided, and it pleased Him to do it that way.
At this point, people who love to argue and talk endlessly about fairness have to shut up. They’ve got nothing left to say.
Yes, I admit it—this decision (or “decree”) of God’s is dreadful/horrible/awful. It’s shocking and hard to stomach. (That’s where the famous Latin “Decretum quidem horribile, fateor” comes from—he’s owning how tough it sounds.)
But no one can seriously deny that God knew ahead of time what would happen to humanity before He even created us. And the reason He knew it? Because He Himself planned and ordained it that way from the beginning.
If somebody tries to attack God just for knowing the future in advance, they’re being reckless and foolish. What’s wrong with God being all-knowing? The real issue isn’t His foreknowledge—it’s His predestination (His choice to decide and make it happen).
So don’t think it’s weird when I say this: God didn’t just predict that Adam would fall and that the whole human race would crash with him—He actually arranged it according to His own purpose and will.
Why? Because:
- It belongs to God’s perfect wisdom to know everything that will ever happen.
- It belongs to His almighty power to actively rule and direct everything that happens.
Calvin then quotes Augustine to back this up (in simpler terms): We rightly believe and confess that God—who created everything very good—knew evil would come out of good things. But He also knew that His supreme goodness and power could bring even greater good out of that evil (rather than never allowing evil at all). So God set up the lives of angels and humans in such a way that:
- First, He would show what people could do with their free will.
- Then, He would show what His grace could do to rescue some, and what His justice could do in judging others.
In short, Calvin is saying: This teaching about God sovereignly deciding some people’s eternal destinies (including allowing or ordaining the fall and its consequences) feels terrifying and hard to accept—he calls it dreadful himself—but it’s the clear teaching of Scripture. Attacking God’s foreknowledge misses the point; the real sticking point is His deliberate choice (predestination). And even though it’s mind-bending, God uses even the worst things to display both His mercy (to the saved) and His justice (to the unsaved), ultimately bringing good out of it all in line with His perfect plan.
This is classic Calvin: blunt about how unsettling the doctrine is, but insistent that we have to accept it because it’s what the Bible reveals about God’s absolute sovereignty.
PARAPHRASE TWO from GROK:
Here’s a more concise modern American English paraphrase of that Calvin passage (Institutes III.xxiii.7):Why did Adam’s sin doom so many people—including infants—to eternal death with no escape? Because God willed it that way, and it pleased Him.
People who love to debate this get silent here. Yes, I admit it—this decree is dreadful and horrifying. But no one can deny God knew the outcome before creating humanity—because He Himself decreed it.
Attacking God’s foreknowledge is pointless and reckless. The real issue is predestination—His deliberate choice to ordain the fall and its consequences, not just foresee them.
As God wisely knows all that will happen, so His power rules and directs everything. Augustine puts it well: God created all things good, foresaw evil arising from good, yet in His almighty goodness ordained human (and angelic) life to first show what free will can do, then display His grace to some and justice to others—ultimately bringing greater good from evil.
In plain terms: Calvin calls double predestination (election to life and reprobation to damnation) terrifying and hard to accept—he owns how awful it sounds—but insists it’s biblical truth about God’s total sovereignty. God doesn’t just predict disaster; He sovereignly plans it to reveal both mercy and justice.
Grok, at this link there is a commentary by John Calvin on Romans 9:19-21, can you modernize and paraphrase this to American English please.
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom38.xiii.v.html
PARAPHRASE ONE from GROK:
Here’s a concise, modern American English paraphrase of John Calvin’s commentary on Romans 9:19-21 (from his Commentary on Romans, as found at the linked CCEL page). I’ve kept it straightforward and easy to follow while staying faithful to Calvin’s meaning—he’s defending God’s absolute sovereignty in election and reprobation (choosing some for mercy, passing over others for judgment) against human objections.
Verse 19 – The objection Paul anticipates:
Paul knows this teaching (that God hardens whom He wills and has mercy on whom He wills) triggers huge pushback. Our sinful human nature (“the flesh”) explodes in anger when it hears that people who end up lost were destined by God’s will to destruction. So Paul quotes the typical angry comeback from unbelievers:
“Why does God still blame us? If He’s the one who made us the way we are and controls everything we do, then He’s just punishing His own creation! We can’t fight Him—He always wins. So His judgment is unfair, and His power is basically tyrannical.”
It’s like they’re shifting all blame to God and then raging at Him for it. (Calvin notes this is similar to how medieval theologians foolishly debated God’s “absolute power” as if He could act arbitrarily without regard to His own justice.)
Verse 20 – Paul’s first response: Shut up and remember who you are!
Paul doesn’t give a long philosophical defense right away. Instead, he shuts down the blasphemy with a blunt reminder of human limits:
“But who do you think you are, O mere human, arguing back against God? Does the thing that’s made get to talk back to the one who made it and say, ‘Why did you make me like this?'”
Calvin explains: Paul starts here because the highest and ultimate reason for everything is God’s will—nothing is higher. If someone claims God arbitrarily rejects some and chooses others out of pure grace, Paul doesn’t deny it; he affirms it! People have no right to challenge or accuse God.
Why doesn’t Paul just say, “There’s a good reason for the difference”? Because any deeper explanation would be beyond our grasp anyway. Paul isn’t dodging because he lacks answers—he’s reminding us of our ignorance and weakness. Proud people complain that Paul gives no “cause” beyond God’s secret counsel, but that’s the point: This is a mystery we can’t fully understand, so we should humbly adore it instead of demanding explanations our tiny minds can’t handle. God stays silent on the “why” not because there’s no reason, but because our small brains can’t contain His infinite wisdom. He accommodates our frailty by calling us to humility and self-control.
Paul hammers home that God’s will is always just, even if we don’t see the reasons. Denying God the right to decide the fate of His creatures robs Him of His proper authority.
The potter-clay illustration (verses 20-21):
Paul uses a vivid analogy (echoing Isaiah 45:9 more than Jeremiah 18:6) to crush human arrogance:
The clay has no right to complain to the potter. The potter has full authority over the clay—he can shape the same lump into whatever he wants: one vessel for honorable use (like a fancy vase), another for ordinary or even dishonorable use (like a trash pot).
Calvin stresses: This isn’t about raw brute force (“power” here means rightful authority, not just might). The potter isn’t stealing anything from the clay by shaping it however he pleases. Similarly, God doesn’t take away anything from humans by deciding their destiny—whether for mercy or judgment.
To deny God this sovereign right as the ultimate decider of life and death is to strip Him of part of His glory and honor.
In plain terms: Calvin says Paul is teaching that God’s choices in salvation (electing some to mercy, hardening/ordaining others to judgment) rest ultimately on His free will, not on anything in us. Human objections that scream “Unfair!” are arrogant and ignorant—like clay yelling at the potter. We should bow in humble awe rather than demand answers we can’t comprehend. This upholds God’s justice and sovereignty without making Him arbitrary or tyrannical—His will is always right, even when hidden from us.
PARAPHRASE TWO from GROK:
Here’s a more concise modern American English paraphrase of John Calvin’s commentary on Romans 9:19-21:The angry objection (v. 19):
Paul anticipates the furious pushback: “If God hardens some and has mercy on others according to His will, why does He still blame us? We’re just His creation—He made us this way and controls everything. Punishing us is like punishing His own work. We can’t fight Him, so His judgment is unfair and His power is tyrannical!”
People shift blame to God, then rage at Him for it—like medieval thinkers foolishly debating God’s “absolute power” as if He could act without justice.
Paul’s response (v. 20):
Paul doesn’t dive into deep explanations first. He shuts it down bluntly: “Who do you think you are, mere human, arguing back at God? Does the thing made get to question the Maker: ‘Why did you make me like this?'”
Calvin explains: The ultimate reason is God’s sovereign will—nothing tops that. Paul affirms (doesn’t deny) that God freely chooses some for mercy and passes over others for judgment. Humans have no right to challenge Him or call it unfair.
Why no “just reasons” given? Because any full answer is beyond our grasp. Paul isn’t short on logic—he’s reminding us of our limits. We’re dust; we can’t comprehend God’s infinite wisdom. Proud critics complain he gives no cause, but that’s intentional: This mystery should be humbly worshiped, not dissected by our curiosity. God stays silent to keep us modest and sober.
Paul keeps stressing: God’s hidden-will decisions are always just. Denying Him the right to shape destinies robs Him of His authority.
The potter-clay picture (vv. 20-21):
Paul uses the analogy (mainly from Isaiah 45:9): The clay has zero right to complain to the potter. From the same lump, the potter can make one vessel for honor, another for common use—it’s his rightful authority, not arbitrary force.
Calvin adds: The potter doesn’t steal from the clay by shaping it. Likewise, God doesn’t rob humans by deciding their end (mercy or judgment). To deny God this role as ultimate Lord over life and death strips Him of due honor.
Bottom line: Calvin says Paul’s teaching upholds God’s total sovereignty in election/reprobation. Human cries of “unfair!” are arrogant ignorance—like clay yelling at the potter. We should bow in awe, not demand answers our finite minds can’t handle. God’s will is righteous, even when mysterious.
Grok, at this link there is a commentary by John Calvin on Romans 9:22-23, can you modernize and paraphrase this to American English please.
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom38.xiii.vi.html
PARAPHRASE ONE from GROK:
Here’s a concise, modern American English paraphrase of John Calvin’s commentary on Romans 9:22-23 (from his Commentary on Romans, as at the linked CCEL page). I’ve kept it straightforward and true to his intent—he’s defending God’s justice in predestination by showing how both reprobation (vessels of wrath) and election (vessels of mercy) display God’s glory.
Verse 22 – God’s patient endurance of the “vessels of wrath”
Paul’s second answer: Even though God’s plan is mysterious and beyond full human understanding, His perfect justice is clear in both saving the elect and dooming the reprobate.
He asks rhetorically: “What if God, wanting to display His wrath and make His power known, patiently endured (with great forbearance) the vessels of wrath—people prepared/fitted for destruction?”
Calvin explains: These are people God has appointed to destruction as examples of His vengeance and anger. Yet He doesn’t wipe them out instantly—He holds back judgment for a time. Why?
- To showcase His severity (terrifying others with these examples).
- To demonstrate His mighty power (using them in various ways to serve His purposes).
- To make the vastness of His mercy toward the elect shine even brighter by contrast.
If God does all this, what’s unfair or blameworthy? Nothing. Paul doesn’t explain why certain people are prepared for destruction—that reason is hidden in God’s secret, unsearchable counsel. We should worship His justice rather than demand to probe it.
He calls them “vessels” because all creatures serve as instruments of God’s power. The reprobate are “vessels of wrath” because they display God’s judgments.
Verse 23 – Displaying the riches of God’s glory on the “vessels of mercy”
“…so that He might also make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory.”
Calvin: This is the flip side—the second purpose. By contrasting the doomed with the saved, God’s infinite mercy toward the elect stands out more vividly. What makes the elect different? Nothing in themselves—they were headed for the same destruction but were graciously rescued by God, not by any merit of their own.
Seeing how miserable everyone else is (under God’s wrath) highlights how praiseworthy His kindness is. “Glory” here refers mainly to God’s mercy (His chief glory shines in acts of grace and kindness).
The elect are “vessels of mercy” because God uses them to display and glorify His mercy. Paul stresses that God Himself “prepared” them beforehand for glory—just as the reprobate were prepared for destruction—both tied to His secret eternal counsel (not something they did or earned).
In plain terms: Calvin says Paul’s point is that God’s choices in election and reprobation aren’t unjust. Letting the wicked persist for a while and then judging them reveals His wrath, power, and severity. Saving the elect reveals His boundless mercy even more dramatically by comparison. Everything serves to magnify God’s glory. We don’t get to question the “why” behind who gets what—it’s God’s sovereign right, and we should humbly adore His justice rather than accuse Him.
PARAPHRASE TWO from GROK:
Here’s a more concise modern American English paraphrase of John Calvin’s commentary on Romans 9:22-23:
Verse 22 – God patiently endures the “vessels of wrath”
Paul’s second defense: Even though God’s plan is mysterious, His justice is obvious in both the doom of the reprobate and the salvation of the elect.
He asks: “What if God, desiring to show His wrath and reveal His power, patiently endured (with great forbearance) the vessels of wrath—people fitted/prepared for destruction?”
Calvin: These are people God has sovereignly appointed to destruction to display His vengeance. Yet He doesn’t destroy them immediately—He holds back judgment to:
- Demonstrate His terrifying severity (warning others through their examples).
- Make His mighty power known (using them to serve His purposes in various ways).
- Highlight the vastness of His mercy toward the elect by stark contrast.
Nothing here is unjust. Paul doesn’t explain why some are prepared for destruction—that reason is hidden in God’s secret, unsearchable counsel. We should adore His justice, not probe it.
“Vessels” means instruments: All creatures serve God’s power. The reprobate are “vessels of wrath” because they manifest God’s judgments.
Verse 23 – Revealing the riches of God’s glory on the “vessels of mercy”
“…so that He might also make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory.”
Calvin: This is the contrasting purpose. By judging the reprobate, God’s infinite mercy to the elect shines brighter. The elect differ from the doomed only because God graciously rescues them from the same destruction—not by their merit, but by pure kindness. Seeing everyone else’s misery makes God’s mercy to them even more praiseworthy.
“Glory” here mainly means God’s mercy (His highest praise comes through acts of grace). The elect are “vessels of mercy” because God uses them to display and glorify His mercy.
God Himself “prepared” them beforehand for glory—just as the reprobate were prepared for destruction—both rooted in His eternal, secret counsel.
In short: Calvin says Paul’s argument shows God’s predestination is just. Enduring the wicked before judging them reveals wrath, power, and severity. Saving the elect reveals boundless mercy by comparison. All of it magnifies God’s glory. We don’t question the hidden “why”—we humbly worship His sovereign justice.
