Back-n-Forth from My Facebook Regarding Impeachment

Some conversation arose from the following post on my Facebook — which is a short excerpt and then link to this article:

If you’re like me and getting into conversations with people about the Trump impeachment, then you need a short, simple summary of the facts.

Quote:

Essentially the Democrats are accusing Trump of shaking down Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky by withholding aid and demanding announcement of investigations, including one involving Joe Biden’s son, Hunter.

To this, the central charge in the articles of impeachment, Rep. Jim Jordan and others presented four specific facts. First, both Trump and Zelensky say there was no pressure applied. Second, the transcript does not indicate Trump making any demands or setting any conditions. Third, Ukraine was not aware that the aid was delayed. And fourth, aid flowed without any announcement of investigations. Taken together, these four defenses have more than enough weight to crush the Democrats’ case, but lets look at them one by one.

Here are some conversations via the above with JIM G. First up, the proclivity of people to offer psychoanalyses about other peoples position based on the interpreter’s (JIM G.) dislike of a person:

JIM G.

Of course Zelensky says their was no pressure. He knows Trump will make him pay dearly if he says anything else. Ukraine desperately needs our support and Trump has already revealed his willingness to withhold that support.

SEAN G.

Trump didn’t reveal anything of the sort. Zelenski got javelins before and after the phone call. I guess the real question is is why did Democrats not help the Ukraine?

JIM G.

first of all, it’s “Ukraine,” not “the Ukraine” just like it is “Canada,” not “the Canada.”

As for why Democrats did not help, I don’t know. But that does not excuse Trump’s attempted shakedown.

[….]

Jordan’s analysis of the so called “transcript” is absurd. It’s like he holds up a black piece of paper and says, “Look, it’s white!”

SEAN G.

if the paper being held up is “black” as you say. Why didn’t the Democrats include an impeachment article saying it was black?

Let me explain this a bit. I have already shared this with JIM, but I want to remind my audience as well with an excerpt from a previous convo also on Facebook:

  • So two articles of impeachment have been put forward. Bribery was what CNN says was the Crux of the case a few weeks ago. However, remember all the terms changed over time: quid pro quo, to extortion, to bribery, to obstruction of justice. None of these are part of the impeachment articles. One impeachment article is “obstruction of Congress” (read here Democrats). What a joke! I think a bulk of the American voters see through this sham/witch Hunt.

This is what I am referring to.

JIM G.

Yes, Ukraine was aware that the aid was delayed.

Aid only flowed after Trump knew he was caught.

SEAN G.

[quote]

One of the few facts in all of this where there is some debate is when exactly Ukraine became aware that the military aid had been delayed. But all versions place it very late in the timeline of events, certainly long after the July 25 phone call with Zelensky. That’s like trying to blackmail someone with scandalous photos of them without letting them know you have any scandalous photos of them. It’s impossible.

The delay of the aid was part of a wider set of concerns regarding how much Ukraine could be trusted with the money. Throughout the late summer and fall, through a set of meetings and phone calls with American officials Zelensky proved to Trump that he could be trusted. That is what Trump wanted to know and why he released the aid without any announcement of investigations.

And that final fact, that the aid was released without the announcements Democrats claim were the condition to release them, really puts the period on the sentence. Democrats claim the aid was only released on September 11 because the White House became aware of the whistleblower report. But this ignores the fact the aid had to release by September 30, and doing so is a two-week process.

So essentially, aid was released on or about the deadline set to release it. That is a much more plausible explanation for the timing than some whistleblower report spooking Trump. Is it possible Trump was angry at yet again being undermined by people in the federal government for exercising his legitimate powers? Sure. But there is no evidence to suggest that Trump was ever planning to ultimately kill the aid.

(again, THE FEDERALIST)

[un-quote]

The aid was set to be released at a certain time, and it wasNot because “Trump thought he was caught.” Dumb.

I then posted this as a reminder that there is no quid-pro-quo in the call. No bribery, or anything like it:

Hugh Hewitt and Generalissimo Duane read the phone call Trump had with the Ukrainian President. One debunked position people attribute to the call was that President Trump used military aid as a barganing chip to get what he wanted from Ukraine. However, the far Left magazine, THE NATION, notes this about the issue:

  • Democratic leaders and media pundits are convinced that Trump extorted Ukraine by delaying military aid to compel an investigation into Biden. Their theory may prove correct, but the available evidence does not, as of now, make for a strong case. Trump had held up military aid to Ukraine by the time of his call with Zelensky, but if the public transcript is accurate, it did not come up during their conversation. According to The New York Times, Zelensky’s government did not learn that the military aid was frozen until more than one month later. Democratic Senator Chris Murphy, who met with Zelensky in early September, said that the Ukrainian president “did not make any connection between the aid that had been cut off and the requests that he was getting from [Trump attorney Rudy] Giuliani.” It will be difficult to prove extortion if Trump’s purported target was unaware.

Here is where I have had a response in my quiver for two-months that in the following convo I FINALLY got to use (and yes, like a true nerd I was excited when I saw JIM’S response):

... C (a)

JIM G.

It’s a summary edited by the White House. It’s not a transcript.

I will add to the conversation below so the reader here has a fuller picture of the issue to help them respond to family/friends/co-workers/etc:

SEAN G.

It is [a transcript]. In fact, TIN BOY Vindman said a single word was missing [from the transcript that he tried to have reinserted], and it didn’t change the meaning of the transcript.

Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman testified in Tuesday’s impeachment hearing that the omission of the word “Burisma” — the Ukrainian natural gas firm that hired Hunter Biden to serve in a lucrative role on the board — in the transcript of President Trump’s July 25 phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was not “significant,” despite some prior controversy over the missing references.
(video linked in original conversation directly below)

It is worse than that though. GATEWAY PUNDIT notes the total lack of conspiracy theories proffered by the Left and #NeverTrumpers.

Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, a National Security Council aide, was one of three people on the infamous July 25 phone call between President Trump and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky. Democrats allege that Trump demanded Zelensky investigate the business dealings of Joe Biden’s son, Hunter, with Ukrainian power company Burisma, then omitted the word from a transcript of the call, which they say White House then hid in a secure server.

Not so, Vindman said.

Vindman testified under oath in Tuesday’s impeachment hearing before the House Intelligence Committee that the omission of the word “Burisma” was not “significant.”

He attributed the omission “to the fact that this transcript being produced may have not caught the word Burisma.”

“It was in the transcript that was released as ‘the company,’ which is accurate,” Vindman testified. “It’s not a significant omission,” he said, later adding: “I didn’t see that as nefarious.” Vindman added that it was “informed speculation that the folks that produce these transcripts do the best they can, and they just didn’t catch the word.”

He also shot down conspiracy theories that the White House moved the call transcript to a secure server to keep it from Democrats.

Again, not so, Vindman said.

Vindman testified Tuesday that storing the transcript in a secure server was not unusual.

“Why would it be put on a separate secure system?” Vindman was asked.

“This is definitely not unprecedented,” he said. “At times, if you want to limit access to a smaller group of folks you put it on the secure system to insure that a smaller group of people with access to the secure system have it.”

BaBoom! Every key witness shot down major MSM and Democrat conspiracy stories.

…CONTINUING WITH OUR EXCHANGE…

... C (b)

JIM G.

the call was approximately 30 minutes. The “transcript” covers roughly 10 minutes.

Here it is… the Pièce De Résistance

SEAN G.

almost 15-minutes. The translators had to translate [which] essentially doubles the time

Those were the best parts from that convo.

CNN’s Anti-Trump Philip Mudd Bemoans Whistle-blower

(NEWSBUSTERS) Since CNN’s counterterrorism analyst Philip Mudd has a reputation for being vociferously anti-Trump, it must have come as quite a surprise to Chris Cuomo on Wednesday when Mudd made comments extremely critical of the intelligence community whistleblower who filed a complaint about one of President Trump’s phone calls with a foreign leader.

As you can see in the video below, Mudd’s response seems to have been not at all what Cuomo expected to hear from him….

Responding To “Blasphemy” – The Chosen One, Trump

I have seen alll-over-Facebook issues with Trump turning away from cameras and saying he “is the chosen one” — BTW! This will be the first encounter you will have in quite some time of Democrats taking seriously and literally the Bible’s edicts. Not in the case of the homosexual lifestyle mind you, just as long as it maligns Trump. Here is the video:

One friend linked to this article from a religious #NeverTrumper: “Trump Breathes Blasphemy, so Where Is the Righteous Anger?

So I decided to pool a couple of my responses across FB here to make the point… but I sometimes feel that when friend’s ask me my thoughts on this they expect me to be like this (animated GIF to the right):

Okay, after the post to the article I linked to above, here are my thoughts, and a response and my response to IT.

ME:

I bet you think he really asked Russia to hack Hillary. Or that Trump really believed he could could shoot someone on 5th street… etc. But humor and sarcasm are not the forte of the Left

  • “Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he’s not; a sense of humor to console him for what he is.” — Francis Bacon

A response from V.M.

Sean Giordano, either way he embraced blatant idolatry. He has been blasphemous before thousands!

In some countries blasphemy is a crime!

But our church leaders have said nothing! Only 2 Pastors I know of rebuked him and called for him to repent! Pastors Chuck Baldwin and Rick Wiles shouted publicly for trump to get on his knees and repent after he took our Lord’s name in vain from that political stump in NC last: “Trump called out by some Christians for using ‘Lord’s name in vain’ at fiery NC rally

ME:

You use the word blasphemous often, but I do not think you know what the word means…

In another strain on GARY DEMAR’S Facebook, his posting Obama’s similarities to Messianism garnered a response to which I responded. But first, I wish to upload his pictures he posted with some others… all combined. (One of the commentators on Gary’s post linked to THE CONSERVATIVE TREEHOUSE’S post — which I threw in the mix):

Here is the comment I respond to:

R.L.

The difference is that Obama didn’t say it of himself or quote it of himself…these were ridiculous labels used by an over-reaching, left leaning media. President Trump grabbed a right leaning media personality statement, quoted it, and embraced the nonsense.

ME:

A quick look at Google (“obama messianism”) shows articles like these:

  • POLITICO: Messianic rhetoric infuses Obama rallies (In a giant Sunday afternoon rally suffused with Christian – and at times messianic – rhetoric,)
  • SLATE: Obama’s Cocky Messianism (But now, with Iowa as his witness, Obama is he starting to sound like he believes the prophecies, too.)
  • Don’t forget about this:

Comment two from ME: (I partly owe the humbly looking to heaven to plead not to be struck by lightning — as we have all done at some point in our lives, to my wife):

From one of my post many years ago, and would be a big (important) difference… Is that what does the base think? I am a conservatarian Evangelical… Would I or the media I follow think he (Trump) is a Messiah figure?

“He made so many promises. We thought that he was going to be – I shouldn’t say this at Christmastime, but – the next messiah” — Barbara Walters. “We”? The media? The left? Both? (RPT)

No. Since most religious people who view theology well are conservative, a belief in Trump being anything but reverent when he wrily looked to the sky to say “don’t smite me for saying this irreverent thing” — and then saying he is the chosen one to politically deal with the can kicked down the road for so long.

THAT is what he was saying. The crappy work of previous Presidents in this area forced him to be the “chosen one.”

Another person noted this BLOGSPOT BLOG about Obama’s messianism. See also my post that has a similar vein: