One of My Very First “Debate Style” Responses (20-Years Ago)

Imported from my old blog, which was itself imported from a 1999 forum debate. 20-years ago. It is a little rudimentary, but the format then was limited. I link many names of the people referenced for those curious. Almost all are evolutionists.

Enjoy.

Question Posed To Me In A Previous Debate:

  • (Gene90 asked) “Do you deny that some mutations are beneficial? (Such as, antibiotic resistance in a bacterium).”

MY RESPONSE

What about this example of bacteria resisting antibiotics? Actually, some bacteria possess a natural genetic capacity to resist certain antibiotics; mutations are not involved in these. Mutations cause a structural defect in ribosomes – the cellular constituents that antibiotics like streptomycin attach to. Since the antibiotic doesn’t connect with the misshapen ribosome, the bacterium is resistant.

Spetner: “We see then that the mutation reduces the specificity of the ribosome protein, and that means losing genetic information… Rather than say the bacterium gained resistance to the antibiotic, we would be more correct to say it lost its sensitivity to it. It lost information. The NDT [neo-Darwinian theory] is suppose to explain how the information of life has been built up by evolution Information cannot be built up by mutations that lose it. A business can’t make money by losing it a little at a time.” (Dr. Spetner’s book was one of the first intelligent design oriented books I read [1997])

In other cases, some mutant bacteria, because they have defective membranes, don’t absorb nutrients well. Fortuitously for them, that inefficiency also prevents their absorbing antibiotics. And so, in this instance also, they survive better than their normal cousins. But the mutation did not make them stronger or create new information, or “evolve” to a higher state. Likewise, if the world’s light suddenly disappeared, blind people might have an advantage over others, since they were already accustomed to operating in darkness. Nevertheless, we cannot then interpret blindness as positive, or representing new information or evolutionary advance.

C.P. Martin, writing in American Scientist, made a similar point when he compared x-rays’ effects on the body to being kicked and beaten [nice family publication]:

“It is quite possible that violent knocking about might dislocate a man’s shoulder, and that continued knocking about might actually reduce the previous dislocationno sane person would cite such a case as this to prove that the results of knocking a man about are not injuries; nor would anyone refer to the result as evidence that knocking a man about can produce an improvement over the normal man. For a truly progressive or evolutionary-apt mutation must result in an improvement over the normal condition. The truth is that there is no clear evidence of the existence of such helpful mutations. In natural populations endless millions of small and great genic differences exist, but there is no evidence that any arose by mutation.”

A more recent — what would be a “sister post” of sorts — is this: Antibiotic Resistance Evidence of “Devolution”

Second Question Posed

  • (Gene90 asked) “Do you deny that parents pass traits to their offspring?”

SECOND RESPONSE

This statement and the evolutionary implications get into what Darwin himself believed while writing his original manifesto, that is – Lamarckism. Lets see what some evolutionary scientists had to say (excerpted from my vestigial organs post).

  • Two of the most powerful causes of mutation are mustard gas and x-rays. A moments reflection on the horror of Hiroshima children born with deformed limbs and bodies, or blood disorders condemning them to premature deaths, is enough to show that they were unlikely candidates, to say the least, to win the struggle for existence in a life-game where survival of the fittest is the governing rule.” (British science writer Francis Hitching)
  • To postulate, as the positivists of the end of the last century and their followers here have done, that the development and survival of the fittest is entirely a consequence of chance mutations, or even that nature carries out experiments by trial and error through mutations in order to create living systems better fitted to survive, seems to me a hypothesis based on no evidence and irreconcilable with the facts…These classical evolutionary theories are a gross oversimplification of an immensely complex and intricate mass of facts, and it amazes me that they were swallowed so uncritically and readily, and for such a long time, by so many scientists without a murmur of protest.” (Biochemist Ernst Chain, who shared a Nobel Prize for his work on penicillin)
  • Simultaneous appearance of several gene mutations in one individual has never been observed, so far as I know, and any theoretical assertion that this is an important factor in evolution can be dismissed… the probability that five simultaneous mutations would occur in any one individual would be about .0000000000000000000001. This means that if the population averaged 100,000,000 individuals with the average length of generations of only one day, such an event could be expected only once in about 274,000,000,000 years – a period about one hundred times as long as the age of the earth.” (George Gaylord Simpson [R.I.P.], Professor of vertebrate paleontology at Harvard, and, perhaps, the twentieth century’s foremost paleontologist)

(Referring to a previous statement about the Panda) – were you there to see the Panda’s thumb change? Is there fossil proof for it (that could pass the Smithsonian Institutes tests [referring to the virulent rejection by the Smithsonian of the recent “feathered dinosaur” published by Natural Geographic])? Do genetic mutations back up the hypothesis?

I could equally say that an alien race came to earth and “tinkered” with rat till they got a Panda. I would have just as much proof as do evolutionists for the Panda evolving from a lower species, or higher (i.e. fish left the water to eventually become a cow, who, eventually went back to the water to become a whale – this is what evolutionary textbooks teach). I see all this as crazy! I say that I came from a cause greater than the universe and myself. Evolutionists say I came from a rock.

  • It is easy to make up stories of how one form gave rise to another, and to find reasons why the stages should be favored by natural selection. But such stories are not part of science, for there is no way of putting them to the test.” (Colin Patterson of the British NaturalHistory Museum)
  • Paleontologists (and evolutionary biologists in general) are famous for their facility in devising plausible stories; but they often forget that plausible stories need not be true.” (Stephen Jay Gould, Harvard’s famed paleontologist and probably evolution’s leading spokesperson today)

Take the human body, as a total system, is irreducibly complex. It is difficult to change one part without influencing others. The liver for example: it manufactures bile; detoxifies poisons and wastes; regulates storage and use of glucose, proteins, fats and vitamins; synthesizes blood clotting and immune system factors; and processes breakdown products of old blood cells. Or take the kidneys: they remove wastes through urine production; regulate the body’s water content and electrolytes (sodium, calcium, etc.); and support the adrenal glands, which secrete hormones such as adrenaline. Or the human heart: blood is pumped to from the right side of the heart to the lungs, where it receives oxygen; then back to the heart’s left side, which propels it to the rest of the body through more than 60,000 miles of vessels. The heart has four chambers; a system of valves prevents backflow into any of these; electrical impulses from a pacemaker control the hearts rhythm.

Rarely, babies are born with congenital heart disorders, making blood shunt to the wrong place. There is no known case of mutations improving circulation!Hemoglobin – the blood’s oxygen-carrying component – has over 40 mutant variants. NOT ONE transports oxygen as well as normal hemoglobin! Theodosius Dobzhansky, one of the twentieth centuries leading Darwinists, acknowledged this:

  • “And yet, a majority of mutations, both those arising in laboratories and those stored in natural populations, produce deteriorations of viability, hereditary diseases, and monstrosities. Such changes, it would seem, can hardly serve as evolutionary building blocks.” 
  • British science writer Frances Hitching says this: “On the face of it, then, the prime function of the genetic system would seem to be to resist change: to perpetuate the species in a minimally adapted form of response to altered conditions, and if at all possible to get things back to normal. The role of natural selection is usually a negative one; to destroy the few mutant individuals that threaten the stability of the species.”
  • Richard Goldschmidt, well known American geneticist said this: “It is true that nobody thus far has produced a new species or genus, etc., by macromutation. It is equally true that nobody has ever produced even a species by selection of micromutaions.”

Dr. Goldschmidt would have known – he bread gypsy moths for twenty years and a million generations in various environments. All he ever got was more gypsy moths. Anyone who thinks that an accumulation of mutations (information-losing processes) can lead to Macroevolution (a massive net gain of information) “is like the merchant who lost a little money on every sale but thought he could make it up on volume.” (Spetner, 1997)

SCV 2014 Voter Guide ~ PapaGiorgio Edition (UPDATED)

STATE

  • Governor: Neel Kashkari ~ #9
  • Lt. Governor: Ron Herring ~ #13
  • Sec of State: Pete Peterson ~ #15
  • Controller: Ashley Swearengin ~ #19
  • Treasurer: Greg Conlon ~ #21
  • Att. General: Ronald Gold ~ #28
  • Ins. Commissioner: Ted Gaines ~ #31
  • State Board of Equalization: George Runner ~ #34

U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE 25TH DISTRICT

  • 25th Dist: Steve Knight ~ #40

MEMBER OF THE STATE ASSEMBLY

  • 38th Dist: Scott Wilk ~ #45

“NONPARTISAN” JUDICIAL

JUDICIAL – SUPREME COURT JUSTICE

  • Goodwin Liu: NO ~ #65
  • Kathryn Mickle Werdegar: YES ~ #67
  • Mariano‐Florentino Cuéllar: NO ~ #71

JUSTICE, CALIFORNIA STATE COURT OF APPEALS; DISTRICT 2, DIVISION 1

  • Francis Rothschild: NO ~ #76
  • Jeffrey W. Johnson: YES ~ #80

JUSTICE, CALIFORNIA STATE COURT OF APPEAL; DISTRICT 2, DIVISION 2

  • Brian M. Hoffstadt: NO ~ #84

JUSTICE, CALIFORNIA STATE COURT OF APPEAL; DISTRICT 2, DIVISION 3

  • Lee Anne Edmon: NO ~ #87

JUSTICE, CALIFORNIA STATE COURT OF APPEALS; DISTRICT 2, DIVISION 4

  • Audrey B. Collins: NO ~ #90
  • Nora M. Manella: YES ~ #92

JUSTICE, CALIFORNIA STATE COURT OF APPEAL; DISTRICT 2, DIVISION 5

  • Paul A. Turner: YES ~ #95

JUSTICE, CALIFORNIA STATE COURT OF APPEAL; DISTRICT 2, DIVISION 6

Kenneth R. Yegan: YES ~ #98

JUSTICE, CALIFORNIA STATE COURT OF APPEAL; DISTRICT 2, DIVISION 7

  • Dennis M. Perluss: NO ~ #102

JUSTICE, CALIFORNIA STATE COURT OF APPEAL; DISTRICT 2, DIVISION 8

  • Laurence D. Rubin: NO ~ #107
  • Madeleine I. Flier: NO ~ #110

JUDGE OF THE SUPREME COURT

  • Dayan Mathai ~ #132

JUDGE OF THE SUPERIOR COURT; COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES; OFFICE 87

  • Andrew M. Stein ~ #136

SCHOOL

SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION

  • Marshall Tuck ~ #140

COUNTY ASSESSOR

  • Jeffrey Prang ~ #146

SHERIFF

  • Paul Tanaka ~ #148

STATE MEASURES

  • PROP 1: NO ~ #159
  • PROP 2: YES ~ #162
  • PROP 45: NO ~ #167
  • PROP 46: NO ~ #171
  • PROP 47: NO ~ #175
  • PROP 48: YES ~ #178

COUNTY MEASURE

NO on P

CITY MEASURE

NO on S

DISTRICT – CASTAIC LAKE WATER AGENCY

MEMBER, BOARD OF DIRECTORS:

Tom Campbell ~ #195

Gary Martin ~ #196

Ibid., DIVISION 2

Stephen P. Daniels ~ #198

I Called Dennis Prager To Share Some “Insider Information” ~ Prager In Return Blesses Me with Some Rabbinic Wisdom

Firstly, my prayers and deepest thoughts go to the Lane family.

The three gang youth that killed Christopher Lane in Oklahoma used some language in their tweets that on a previous show Dennis showed some ignorance in — rightfully so. So I called into the show today (8-23-2013) to offer some clarification to what he read on the air. After my story of incarceration [many years ago], Dennis blessed me with a Rabbinic proverb:

  • The talmudic dictum, “In the place where penitents stand, the wholly righteous do not stand” (Ber. 34a) was popularly revised into the clearer dictum, “In the place where penitents stand, the wholly righteous are unable to stand,” stressing the superiority of the penitent more clearly than in the original. (http://tinyurl.com/ke65eve)

Near the end I didn’t fully understand his question, but yes, religion (Christianity) is the best influence on people changing their lives. (Posted by: http://religiopoliticaltalk.com/)

For more clear thinking like this from Dennis Prager… I invite you to visit: http://www.dennisprager.com/

Vacation (Alaska and then Idaho) ~ Doing the Opposite of `Climate Refugees` (see below)

Headed to Alaska on a cruise and then inland for a family function. I will not be up and running (I do have two Serious Saturdays set to automatically appear [below this post] over the next two Saturdays) till after the 5th of August. Have fun hunting for stories my fellow Religio-Political conservatives. Of course my trip wouldn’t be complete without posting thatAGW alarmists use the earth’s wobble to say “climate change” is man’s fault:

Real Science:

This is just what they warned us about. Global warming is forcing people to move south to warmer climates.

Cold Winter and Summer Have Some Ready to Leave Alaska

After record-breaking winter, cool summer is a bummer

ANCHORAGE – After a record-breaking winter, we are now headed for one of the coldest months of July on record.
And it has some Alaskans thinking it may be time to leave the great land.

By Alaska summer standards, it’s been a pretty cool and gloomy start to the beginning of July.

The temps may be setting records, but it’s not the first summer that’s been less than sunny – and some people say they’ve had enough.

Who’s colder today: Anchorage or Barrow, Alaska?

By Alaska’s summer standards, it’s been cool in South-Central Alaska this month and especially this week. (By lower 48 standards, it’s flat out cold). It’s been so cool in Anchorage that for the past two days (July 11 and 12) high temperatures have been colder than Barrow, the 9th northermost city in the world, which is more than 700 miles to the north of Alaska’s largest city.

On July 11, Anchorage had a high temperature of 56º. July 12 topped out at 54º. Both days set records for the lowest maximum temperature. And for all of July thus far, no day at the Anchorage Forecast office has seen a daily high at or above the average (65-66º). [Climate log: http://bit.ly/N6aIAZ]

Moreover, July is normally the warmest month of the year on average in Anchorage. This July is the coldest on record (so far) by more than 1.5º with an average monthly temperature of 52.7º. The coolest July on record occurred in 1920 with an average monthly temperature of 54.4º.

I updated a portion of my Introduction Chapter to my Book: `Worldviews: A Click Away from Binary Collisions (Religio-Political Apologetics)`

I added some portions from Thomas Sowell’s book, A Conflict of Visions:

==============QUOTE

Christianity is closely tied to the success of capitalism,[1] as it is the only possible ethic behind such an enterprise. How can such a thing be said? The famed economist/sociologist/historian of our day, Thomas Sowell, speaks to this in his book A Conflict of Visions: Ideological Origins of Political Struggles. He whittles down the many economic views into just two categories, the constrained view and the unconstrained view.

The constrained vision is a tragic vision of the human condition. The unconstrained vision is a moral vision of human intentions, which are viewed as ultimately decisive. The unconstrained vision promotes pursuit of the highest ideals and the best solutions. By contrast, the constrained vision sees the best as the enemy of the good— a vain attempt to reach the unattainable being seen as not only futile but often counterproductive, while the same efforts could have produced a more viable and beneficial trade-off. Adam Smith applied this reasoning not only to economics but also to morality and politics: The prudent reformer, according to Smith, will respect “the confirmed habits and prejudices of the people,” and when he cannot establish what is right, “he will not disdain to ameliorate the wrong.” His goal is not to create the ideal but to “establish the best that the people can bear.”[2]

Dr. Sowell goes on to point out that while not “all social thinkers fit this schematic dichotomy…. the conflict of visions is no less real because everyone has not chosen sides or irrevocably committed themselves.” Continuing he points out:

Despite necessary caveats, it remains an important and remarkable phenomenon that how human nature is conceived at the outset is highly correlated with the whole conception of knowledge, morality, power, time, rationality, war, freedom, and law which defines a social vision…. The dichotomy between constrained and unconstrained visions is based on whether or not inherent limitations of man are among the key elements included in the vision.[3]

The contribution of the nature of man by the Judeo-Christian ethic is key in this respect. One can almost say, then, that the Christian worldview demands a particular position to be taken in the socio-economic realm.* You can almost liken the constrained view of man in economics and conservatism as the Calvinist position. Pulitzer prize winning political commentator, Walter Lippmann (1889-1974), makes the above point well:

At the core of every moral code there is a picture of human nature, a map of the universe, and a version of history. To human nature (of the sort conceived), in a universe (of the kind imagined), after a history (so understood), the rules of the code apply.[4]

A free market, then, is typically viewed through the lenses of the Christian worldview with its concrete view of the reality of man balanced with love for your neighbor;

Sean Giordano (AKA. Papa Giorgio), Worldviews: A Click Away from Binary Collisions (Religio-Political Apologetics), found in the introductive chapter, “Technology Junkies


[1] See for instance: R.H. Tawney, Religion and the Rise of Capitalism (New Brunswick, NJ: Transaction Publishers, 2000 [originally 1926]); Max Weber, The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism (Mineola, NY: Dover Publications, 2003 [originally 1904]); Rodney Stark, The Victory of Reason: How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success (New York, NY: Random House, 2005); Thomas E. Woods, Jr., How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization (Washington, D.C.: Regnery, 2005).

[2] Thomas Sowell, A Conflict of Visions: Ideological Origins of Political Struggles (New York, NY: basic Books, 2007), 27.

[3] Ibid., 33, 34.

[4] Walter lippmann, Public Opinion (New York, NY: Freee Press, 1965), 80.

Introduction – Technology Junkies

essentials in unity,in the non-essentials have liberty,but in all things they do,try to do in love (Footnote #18)

This is footnote #18 from a chapter in my book. I reference it a lot in conversation, so I am posting it here for ease of reference without having people — nor myself —  having to search through pages or programs to see it. Enjoy:

I like to say, “I am a Baptist at heart, just not in dress or drink.”   Which is a humorous way of saying I am a product of the hippie/boomer generation while at the same time I very much enjoy doctrinal orthodoxy.  Being at a church that defends the major aspects of the faith and allows at the same time the grace and space needed to grow and learn — which often times is a lifetime — has been a blessing.  So what we defend is God the Father and the Revelation He gave us (the Bible), Jesus Christ the Son and the work he wrought on the Cross for us, and the Holy Spirit and the daily regeneration He works in us. Let me, if you will, share a response to a young man whom contacted me via email.  He seemed a bit confused and almost demanded that people know and accept inerrancy before taking them as believers.  Here is my response to him, it is long but still in abridged form:

I myself am still learning about theology, God, relationships in the Body, etc.  What I believed about God, His Son, and the Holy Spirit 10-years ago I have matured in.  Would you have run me through a list of doctrinal beliefs (10-years ago) and if we didn’t agree on this list would I be your friend?  Would I be allowed a place in your church to be able to hash out life issues, theology, and the like; a place where relationships can grow and spurn understanding and deeper knowledge about God, His Son, and the Holy Spirit as well as all the dynamics (or egos) between the body of Christ?  I suspect, because I am a finite being, that in 10-years from now I will have matured and reformulated peripheral beliefs about my faith as well as growing in understanding of the shared Christian’s doctrinal foundations.  In fact, Paul says that we look through a clouded mirror and that one day we will see as we are seen.  I will not fully comprehend everything I need to until I stand before my Creator. On that day I suspect that even the knowledge of this perfect theology will give way to that relationship I was originally intended for.  Dennis Prager has a neat saying, he says often to “not let the perfect get in the way of the good.”  That small sentence has a big meaning. When I first started going to this church 12-years ago [from the date of this writing], I tested my pastor.  One of my tests I gave was this question during general conversation (thinking all-the-while that it would reveal an all-important issue that would tell me if he was orthodox or not): “do you believe that Noah’s flood was universal.”  He responded back that he “didn’t see an issue with the Flood being local.”  For years that bugged me and I thought that while I enjoyed his preaching I didn’t agree with his stance on a Biblical issue that was crucial in my mind’s eye.  During this time my wife and I were reunited after three-years of separation, this three-time felon went to seminary — in other words, God was working on me.  I finally was in a deep conversation with him and others in a membership class and it hit me like a ton of bricks.  He mentioned that separating on issues like the age of the earth is not important in the grand scheme of things (salvation), although they are fun and interesting topics to discuss, and he enjoys doing such with members who are mature enough not to find a church that they think is “perfect.”  (Don’t ruin the good with the perfect, in other words.)  What is important is what God the Father provided us with, what Jesus accomplished on the cross (and thusly who He is), and how the Holy Spirit is regenerating our lives through Him and the body of Christ, the kinesthetics of God touching our lives, so-to-speak.  God won’t deny a person into heaven if he or she believes the earth to be 4.5 billion years old… they nor I will not really care how old the earth is at that point anyhow — he or she gets in because they know Jesus, not doctrine.  Jesus is preeminent, doctrine is secondary.  Secondary in that it may take a life-time in a healthy-well-balanced church to really know and understand doctrine.  My pastor, I found out later, is a committed young-earth creationist like myself, after finding this out I felt embarrassed about my list of questions I asked 12-years ago. There are people that I rub shoulders with at church that do not believe the following like my or I believe.  In fact, they may never learn how to express this truth as well as Norman Geisler until the day they die:

Holy Scripture, as the inspired Word of God witnessing authoritatively to Jesus Christ, may properly be called infallible and inerrant. These negative terms have a special value, for they explicitly safeguard crucial positive truths. Infallible signifies the quality of neither misleading nor being misled and so safeguards in categorical terms the truth that Holy Scripture is a sure, safe, and [a]reliable rule and guide in all matters. Similarly, inerrant signifies the quality of being free from all falsehood or mistake and so safeguards the truth that Holy Scripture is entirely true and trustworthy in all its assertions.  We affirm that canonical Scripture should always be interpreted on the basis that it is infallible and inerrant. However, in determining what the God-taught writer is asserting in each passage, we must pay the most careful attention to its claims and character as a human production. In inspiration, God utilized the culture and conventions of his penman’s milieu, a milieu that God controls in His sovereign providence; it is misinterpretation to imagine otherwise. (Geisler)

However, if conversation comes up with a person or family of our church who doesn’t know all the aspects of the doctrine of inerrancy/infallibility, they may know at least this much after a discussion with myself or another person whom loves theology: “that inerrancy means that Scripture in the original manuscripts does not affirm anything that is contrary to fact” (Grudem).  In case you didn’t catch what that sentence meant, it means that the Bible always tells the truth, and that it always tells the truth concerning everything it talks about (Grudem).  However, to run down a list with a family that has gone to the church for 2-years, or for 10-years about where they stand on inerrancy would cause more harm than good in my mind’s eye.  These persons need a safe environment where they can grow, disagree, hash things out, learn, inculcate… all the while learning about the essentials in unity, in the non-essentials have liberty, but in all things they do, try to do in love (Rupertus Meldenius/Augustine).

Separation of Church and State (SE Cupp and Mark Levin Deal out some pain)

Via NewsBusters:

Howard Kurtz should apologize to conservative author S. E. Cupp for how he and his fellow panelists treated her on Sunday’s “Reliable Sources.”

As Cupp via a satellite feed tried to explain the point Delaware Republican senatorial candidate Christine O’Donnell was making about the First Amendment during last week’s debate with Chris Coons, those in the studio could be heard in the background laughing…

NewsBusters Continues:

Okay, well why don’t take Page’s advice and read the First Amendment:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

See anything in there about the separation of church and state?

I have compiled some info on this, but before I post it, lets hear Landmark Legal Foundation President Mark R. Levin take talk about this on his radio show:

(Part 1)

(Part 2)

(Takes a caller… starts at the 1:20 mark)


Here is my input/compilation on the matter:

Separation of Church and State